What would be your ultimate CO legal Muzzleloader?

[Dioni A]

I'm in the process of building what I'd consider to be the best everywhere but Idaho muzzle loader. It's going to be a switch barrel Remington 700 ultimate muzzleloader. For Colorado I'd run the factory barrel with an arrow head breach plug and Williams western precision open sights. If I get buy off from rokslide I may be doing a write up on it.

 

[ENCORE]

Are you saying your load was 84 gr of BH 209 by weight/ 120 gr by volume?

If so ouch .

My elk loads with the FPB are 90-95 gr by volume. Works well for me at Colorado open sight ranges (for me out to 150 yards).

When I get to 100 gr (vol) or above it adversely affects my neck and because of that I start flinching. For those that can, power to you, but I am sticking with lower amounts of powder.

And I hear your argument about hit um where they live, and they will go down quick, but IF you can get expansion, you have that much more shock power. So if I use 90-95 gr (vol) BH209 and a 320 Fury, can I count on expansion of the bullet out to 200 yards?

Yes, the charge of 84/120 is correct as you stated. Its the maximum production rifle charge of 84grs by weight or 120grs by volume of BH209.

Some people have issues with recoil and it may be medical/physical, or are just mental. When its medical/physical, then there's not much can be done. The mental issues can be corrected. Poor rifle stock design and shooting form doesn't help anyone with recoil concerns.
There are a lot of poor stocks being sold on muzzleloaders. Manufacturers have for decades designed most stocks LOP for what they considered the "AVERAGE" shooter. Average means that 50% of shooters are smaller than "AVERAGE" and the other 50% are larger than average.

If someone is recoil shy, rather it be physical or mental, then a reduced charge may be required for them to have the confidence for proper shot placement. With that, it can absolutely change both the maximum hunting range and type/style of bullet. Without question, a bullet that may work properly at 200yds with a higher charge, may very well not work with a lessor charge. That's pretty much common knowledge within the industry.
If one for what ever reason needs to shoot a lighter charge, then reduce the maximum range for hunting shots at game.

84/120grs of BH has been the maximum charge for over a decade that has been recommended for production rifles. Things have and are changing significantly, such as the new CVA products in 45cal, such as the Paramount rifle, which is capable of 150grs by volume of BH. Their new 50cal rifle just being released, is also capable of that same heavy charge of BH209. Some customs are rated for heavier charges of BH. The RUM or UF rifles shooting 200grs of black, or 180grs of T7 with 300gr bullets will get your attention.

Yes, everyone wants the best bullet, the highest velocity and the best expansion BUT, each hunter must know his/her limitations and adjust accordingly.

For me...……….. and using production rifle charges of 84/120grs of BH209, I would not have an issue with Fury bullets for game to a maximum of 200yds. There are also other bullets which will work to 200yds, such as the Parker BE, the newer Black Max and also other high quality bullets with thinner jackets, such as the Pittman .015" jacketed bullets.

Choose wisely for your own individual requirements. If you plan to shoot long range at game, then you must accept more recoil in most cases. Rather that be with 120grs volume of BH209 and a 300gr bullet, or a 90gr volume charge of black powder and a 500gr bullet.

 

[RaggedHunter]

I really appreciate all of the info! this is exactly the kind of insight I was hoping to get from some of you with a lot of Muzzleloader experience. Really leaning towards a Knight UL with the Williams peep setup, that looks to be a killer setup. I appreciate all the bullet info as well, we will probably end up testing several different ones, but it's always nice to have a starting point and some background info from other peoples experiences.

 

[SteveCNJ]

Correct! 80 grains of BH should create about 1600 fps (according to a posted table) and the bullet was captured at 25 yards - so if you elk is 25 yards away It will work fine!

He also tested 60 grains of BH at 25 yards with a velocity of about 1400fps (according to a posted table)- the result there was a dented bullet

View attachment 189494

I shoot 70 grains by weight of BH209 with a 290 gr Barnes sabot and get 1845 fps from my T/C Bone Collector

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[txhunter581]

I won’t ever shoot at game with a centerfire Rifle at 800 yards or with a Muzzy at 400

And I have had 2 cortisone injections in my neck already for pain so I don’t need to push that. Therefore, pushing the limit on powder and recoil is not something I will do

That said, my elk load is accurate and lethal as is, so I am pretty well set for now. And when I switch to my 460 grain conicals my powder drops to 85 grains And I still have a great lethal combo.

Like you, I believe every person has their individual needs and mine includes a bullet that will expand at moderate velocities but hold together and push thru a big elk. For me the FPBs have been that bullet. In an ideal world you would always push a hole thru the heart or nearby surrounding tissue. In reality that doesn’t always happen. I hit a big cow at 120 yards with the load mentioned above at a severe uphill angle. And I was a bit forward or she moved her leg back and the bullet struck her just above the elbow. That’s a big bone! The FPB broke that bone and traveled thru her heart. I have no doubt that the Fury would have done the same but would it also open up some on a standing broadside shot thru the chest at the same distance.

That question has not been answered yet. For us that use “normal” instead of max loads of powder, is the Fury Still a good choice?

 

[ENCORE]

…….. That question has not been answered yet. For us that use “normal” instead of max loads of powder, is the Fury Still a good choice?

Any of the Fury with .015" jackets will work within range, but without increased velocity range is reduced unless you add weight. The thick jacketed bullets are a different story and require the additional velocity.
The Fury bullets are very reasonably prices for their quality. I'd suggest ordering a trial package and shoot them with your hunting charges to test them at your maximum set shooting distance.
I can say with certainty, during our dedicated muzzleloader season I will be using Fury bullets designed for production rifles.

Be cautious of which loading jag you use also. Its now known that using the wrong loading jag that doesn't cover more of the olgive, there is a crush to the tips of pointed bullets, which may reduce proper expansion.

 

[Skee7533]

I own an original (not Prohunter) Encore and I can't imagine ever needing a muzzleloader that shoots better than it does.

 

[txhunter581]

I own an original (not Prohunter) Encore and I can't imagine ever needing a muzzleloader that shoots better than it does.

With Conicals? Cause that is what Colorado requires. If so, you are lucky, but I would not recommend buying an Encore (with a QLA) for Colorado. You can call T/C yourself and ask them if they will reliably shoot conicals. They will tell you no.

 

[Skee7533]

With Conicals? Cause that is what Colorado requires. If so, you are lucky, but I would not recommend buying an Encore (with a QLA) for Colorado. You can call T/C yourself and ask them if they will reliably shoot conicals. They will tell you no.

I shoot powerbelt almost exclusively in mine and they shoot very well (maybe I am just lucky). I have assumed they would be legal for Colorado, if I am incorrect, I appologize.

 

[txhunter581]

Powerbelts are legal in Colorado. The reason they do OK in most T/C guns is the rear bell that expands and seals the gas in even when it goes thru the QLA. But you can't buy one with the express purpose of shooting conicals, because it might not.

And I shot powerbelts a long time ago, but moved on to tougher bullets and will never go back. You might even be one of the lucky ones who has a QLA and barrel that are alligned. Mine was not and they won't guarantee them to be alligned.

 

[tilltheend]

I'm in the same boat we have enough points to pull a Muzzy Elk tag in CO so I'm using it as an excuse to upgrade. What's the opinion on going with the Ultra Magnums like the Paramount Pro over a standard magnum that can take up to 120 of BH? Is it necessary for Elk when I feel we'll mostly be in the timber?

 

[durangobrad]

Anyone have experience with the new sight set from Williams?

New Williams™ Western Precision Muzzleloading Sight

New for 2020, Williams Gun Sights has released the Williams Western Precision Muzzleloading Sight. With many western states not allowing scopes during muzzleloading seasons, hunters are lead to use fiber optics, peep sights, or plain iron sights. With modern inline muzzleloading seasons offering...

www.muzzle-loaders.com

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