What to look for in optics

[Fito]

I have a lot to learn about choosing an optic. What are the things that you look for? I want to educate myself about this prior to spending what I consider a lot of money.

 

[Zappaman]

Lots of "spendy" optics out there... and lots of guys not shooting out to 600 yards (with them)... food for thought.

For hunting, I use good Weavers (Grand Slams, Classics, K series), and other lightweight scopes in the $250 - $500 range. I don't "dial" when hunting unless on elk-- then I might spend a bit more

More and more, scopes are getting HEAVY these days too- I prefer the lighter fixed power stuff on my mountain guns

 

[thinhorn_AK]

It really depends on your needs. Are you sitting in a tree and taking shots at 70yds or less? Are you trying to make long distance shots in open, windy conditions? Are you hunting in AK?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Lots of "spendy" optics out there... and lots of guys not shooting out to 600 yards (with them)... food for thought.

For hunting, I use good Weavers (Grand Slams, Classics, K series), and other lightweight scopes in the $250 - $500 range. I don't "dial" when hunting unless on elk-- then I might spend a bit more

More and more, scopes are getting HEAVY these days too- I prefer the lighter fixed power stuff on my mountain guns

I was reading around the internet the earlier, I saw where some guy was like “no way I’d put and SWFA scope on my gun, it’s too heavy….I’ll stick with my vx5”….when in reality it’s a difference of 1oz. I like light guns too but I like optics and mounting systems that aren’t delicate. I still shoot my leupolds but not for every hunt.

 

[Zappaman]

I LOVE my Weaver "K6 six" 6 power scopes-- got several in working guns (tossed into the mule, dropped a few times, been through it all). They are made by LOW (in Japan) and tough (and clear)... and 11 oz. I'd hate to have to replace one, but so far (after many years) I haven't had to I get there are a lot of "junk" scopes out there, but if you look around you might find a few diamonds on the rought for less than $500.

 

[Wapiti1]

Which optic are you looking at? What are you going to do with it?

Binocs and spotters: glass quality is the main consideration, with weight and size as secondary issues. Riflescopes include mechanics and glass: maintaining zero, return to zero, reliability of power selector, reliability of parallax adjustment, reticle design, and a distant last is glass quality. Different purposes for each one and different criteria.

I spend 70% of my time behind binocs, 29% behind a spotter, and 1% behind a riflescope on a hunt. My binocs and spotter have to be good to great. My riflescope has to track and have a usable reticle for me with good enough glass.

I've seen guys that had awesome glass in their rifle scope and had a crystal-clear view of the "insert critter here" they couldn't hit due to mechanical failure.

I also don't believe you need to spend a lot to satisfy all three. Mid-range binocs and spotters work very well and are arguably as good or better than the best of 10-15 years ago. That said, for rifle scopes, I think the ones made now are mechanically better due to the shift in hunter preference. More emphasis on mechanics has improved that aspect. Most hunting related older scopes were set it and forget it designs. That said, look for proven track records in rifle scopes and stay away from "me too" makers. Just adding an external dial doesn't make a scope a good option.

Jeremy

 

[cmahoney]

Buy once cry once, especially with binos.


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[keystone112]

Don’t buy something that you will not be satisfied with. You will eventually want to upgrade and will spend much more when finished.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Write down your requirements. Think about where and how you will use them.

Preferably your rifle scope and binoculars will have comparable clarity. Sucks seeing an animal in your binoculars and cannot see it in your rifle scope. Likewise, doesn’t make a lot of sense (usually) to have amazing glass on a rifle scope and horrible clarity on your POS binoculars.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Fito, what cartridge are you shooting in from what style of rifle? That would play a large amount into my decision on the scope I choose. Eye relief being a huge component of what I find important.

Wapiti1, in post #6 says it well.

And here's my take on it as well...

I worked in the hunting department at a Cabela's a number of years back. Guys getting scopes mounted on their new rifles would come ask for inexpensive binoculars "Because I just spent more money than I should have on my rifle and scope". They were getting $500+ worth of scope on the rifle and wanted to spend $99 on a pair of binocs.

I told them they're going to spend the majority of time using the binoculars to find the game and a very small amount spent looking through the scope to harvest the game.

Spend more than you think you should on the binoculars and get a solid mid-range scope and you're set.

My brother recently put a Burris FullField IV 2.5-10x42 on his new to him 300 Win Mag hunting rifle. I'm a Leupold guy. But I couldn't find fault with that scope other than the eye relief window wasn't what I would like. And for a rifle that typically has lots of recoil eye relief is king for me.

 

[Fito]

Thank you for your help and insight everyone!

I’m shooting bolt actions, small and medium bores. I tend to like a long eye relief on my scopes, as well as easy to find sight box. My rifle and scope set ups are adequate. Mostly Leopold VXIIIs.

My binos, range finder and spotter is where i need to focus on improving.
And too me, they’re seriously expensive. I’m not going to go top of line, I simply can’t afford it, and not convinced that i need it.
Almost anything I’d buy would be a step up.
Trying to decide on how much magnification i need as well as what to actually look for when evaluating these optics.
What makes one pair of binos better than the next? Same with spotter

 

[Wapiti1]

Thank you for your help and insight everyone!

I’m shooting bolt actions, small and medium bores. I tend to like a long eye relief on my scopes, as well as easy to find sight box. My rifle and scope set ups are adequate. Mostly Leopold VXIIIs.

My binos, range finder and spotter is where i need to focus on improving.
And too me, they’re seriously expensive. I’m not going to go top of line, I simply can’t afford it, and not convinced that i need it.
Almost anything I’d buy would be a step up.
Trying to decide on how much magnification i need as well as what to actually look for when evaluating these optics.
What makes one pair of binos better than the next? Same with spotter

Here are some general comments on binocs and spotters.

First, spotters show their faults at the higher magnifications. Bypass the spotters that are less than $500, and start there. Most of these are good (i.e. usable) up to 35X in 65mm and 45X in 80mm. Above those and they lose contrast, and color making the view look grey and soft. I would look for ED glass elements, or apochromatic elements in the optic. You need to get to the $700+ price point to find spotters that work up to their max magnification in lower light. I'd look at Pentax, Nikon, Meopta, and used alpha (Leica APO, Zeiss, Swaro) for a decent scope. I personally think Pentax makes the best sub $1000 scope. The PF65ED is about $750 and is excellent for the cost.

Couple of quirks on spotters. The eyepiece makes or breaks the optic. If available, a 30X fixed mag eyepiece can make a lower end spotter outstanding where the zoom eyepiece was crap. An 80mm mid price scope will keep up with a 65mm high end scope in many cases due to the better light transmission. So, if you go cheaper ($500), go bigger to get the best view. If you go lower end 65mm, accept the tradeoff. Keep in mind, when I say it will keep up with, I mean it will be useable, not necessarily equal in all respects.

Binocs are interesting. There are tons of them out there, but they fall into price points. $300/500/700/1000 and so on. A good universal set is a 8X42 or 10X42. 8X30 is good too, and smaller/lighter/cheaper for the same quality (usually). A quick note on the X42 or X30 part. This is the objective diameter, and it dictates light transmission to your eye called exit pupil. Exit pupil is roughly the objective, say 42, divided by the power, say 10. So the exit pupil is 4.2mm. This applies to all optics, and is important for dim light. The exit pupil of the optic needs to be larger than your eye pupil to give you the best view. If it is smaller, the image darkens since you eye isn't getting all of the light.

On roof prism binocs, you need phase correction coating for the best view and this is pretty standard on $300 and up binos these days. But check the specs to make sure. I'd start at $300 for a usable pair, but your options are limited even though there are tons of $300 binocs out there. Maven C1, Meopta Optika HD, and Pentax S-series are good. Others are too, but these I've used. I'd really push you to $400-500 and look at Pentax Z series, Kowa BD, Olympus Pro, Nikon Monarch 7, and Maven B3.

What makes on pair better than another at the same price point are coatings, and assembly. Most have similar coatings, but some do better here than others. Camera makers tend to have better coatings at lower price points, IMO. Assembly is tricky since you don't know. One pair might be outstanding, and another might be a little off. They all passed QC, so they should be collimated, and focus correctly. Past that you roll the dice.

Jeremy

 

[tdot]

Alot of good points have been covered, so I'll try to add some that I found helpful when starting out in the optics game.

Analyze your needs. Not everyone needs a spotter. What is your style of hunting? What animals are your pursuing? Where? Eastern Whitetail is very different then counting rings on a ram. Based on that info, many hunters can get away without investing in a spotter and instead can spend more money on bino's. You are more likely to spot more animals with better bino's then a poor quality spotter.

In bino's a lower magnification will almost always give you better optics at any price point. So if you have good vision, I'd consider an 8x bino.

 

[nobody]

I've shared the scenario below on 2 other threads in the last week. It bears repeating here as well I feel. When looking through optics, you have to consider what your price point is, first and foremost. It doesn't matter if the Zeiss Victory's are the best to your eyes if you're not willing to spend the money necessary to get a pair of them. If your budget is $1k, then find and look through EVERY pair of $1k binoculars you can and spend as much time as you can testing each of them. Test them in low light, ask the sporting goods stores if you can take them outside and test them. Look towards (NOT at) the sun and check for glare, look at shadows, look at contrasting lines, look at the center AND the edge of the field of view, and let your eyes tell you what you like. We could beat you verbally with terms like "chromatic aberration" and "edge distortion," but at the end of the day, if it looks good to you, then there's your winner.

Step 2, once you've made your decision, is to spend as little money as possible to get to your desired pair and price threshold with as little monetary investment as possible. I always recommend to people that you save for as long as possible and buy less pairs of optics but a better pair of optics each time. If you buy your entry level binos, then a $200 pair, then a $500 pair, then a $700 pair, then a $1000 pair, then a $1200 pair, then an "alpha" level pair, you'll spend so much more money on that last pair in the long run just because of the losses you've taken on sale of your other binoculars.

Here's the math. The first number in each equation is what you buy them for and the second number is what you can realistically sell them for. I'm going to use Vortex's lineup as the main catalyst for this math, just because they have one pair in each of these price categories, but the same can be done swapping in other optics companies.

Diamondback HD's: $260 = $260 (don't sell because you'll need an extra/truck bino) loss
Viper HD's: $500 - $300 = $200 loss
Razor HD's: $1000 - $700 = $300 loss
Razor UHD's: $1500 = $1500 spent

If you add all the totals up, in order to pay for one pair of truck binos and one pair of the UHD's, you've spent $2,260.00. If you just buy the Diamondback's and save until you can afford and buy the UHD's, you're $1760 into the same end result, leaving $500 for tags and other gear upgrades along the way.

Again, you can swap in Leupold Alpines on the low end and Swarovski NL's on the upper end. But if you spend tons of money buying just small incremental increases, you'll end up spending so much more money to get to the end result of one backup pair and one high end pair.

Not everybody needs or wants alpha glass either, so that top end of where you'll spend money will change depending on what you want from your optics. But the concept holds true. If you are plenty happy with a $500 pair, then buy as few pairs to get to the $500 pair as possible and spend the other money on more gear and tags.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

8 power binos in the chest (preferably range finding) and then get a pair of 15x56 in the top of your pack. Have a lightweight tripod and pan head easy to get to. Ditch the spotter unless you're hunting species that require certain spec requirements or if you're really picky and want a certain class of big game animal (even then the good quality 15's are incredible for judgement on a tripod).

I've tried all sorts of optics combinations over the years and I am back to the aforementioned set up for how I hunt. Trial and error can be tricky when you're on a budget, maybe look into renting and see what works for you?

 

[buckdandy]

As was previously stated, try everything you can get your hands on in your price range. This cannot be overstated. Make sure to try them outside as well. It all looks pretty good inside of a well-lit building. Though I don't have any experience with either, it seems that Maven and Tract are the easiest to test drive, so they're worth a look.

Some optics are more sensitive to eye placement, which is a huge turn off to me. I find that I'm fighting the glass and constantly repositioning to avoid blackouts. Eye comfort is critical for something that will be used for extended periods.

Decent binos and a tripod will be a much better setup than throwing a cheap spotter in the mix.

 

[Mhopper5]

Don’t buy anything less than ED glass or whatever the manufacturer calls it. Resolution and contrast are more important than magnification. Find something within your budget and get the most recognized brand. Binos rule of thumb- take the number of minutes you will look through the glass in a given day and add a zero at the end. This is what you should spend . This helps with resale as mentioned before. I’m skeptical of these names popping up I’ve never heard. Once you start down the path of seeking optical perfection it’s difficult to stop until you hit the end with one of the big three. (It’s a hunt in and of itself). Don’t be afraid to buy used. Most high end optics will have been taken care of by their owner (we hope).

Buy in this order using criteria mentioned above:
1) Binos
2) Scope
3) Spotting scope (angled only) or 15x

I won’t mention the necessity of a quality tripod and head. That’s a given and everyone should have one for stationary glassing.

Personal note, when hunting in public people always gawk at my set up (specifics don’t matter) and make comments on the glass or ask how much things cost. Extremely annoying. What they don’t usually see is the Remington 700 ADL 7mm I bought in 1999 at Walmart for $259. I put the 3x9 tasco scope from my 10-22 on it until 2009 when I had enough gift cards from cabelas saved to purchase a 1.8-whatever x32mm VX3. What matters is I always spotted game first so I got first shot. My friends spent all their money on the latest and greatest guns and gadgets. I went a different route and have no complaints.

One last comment. A lot of people comment on their warranty (or lack there of) on their optical product. I always scratch my head when I read their soapbox speech about how they did this or that or it was their fault but the manufacturer replaced at no cost. These companies are in business to make money. Giving things away for free doesn’t make them money. So maybe they paid double or triple the actual cost of the product because the company anticipates a warranty claim at some point. Any claims that don’t happen is money ahead. Why not buy a quality product where the 2x-3x price goes into the materials and craftsmanship? With the increase in quality you shouldn’t have any “quality” issues, if you drop them or run them over I think that should be on you.

 

[Fito]

Thanks for all the information and details so far. I appreciate you taking the time to help me, and maybe others.