What is your effective range?

[Stalker69]

I practice out to 1000. Self imposed limit in the field, with good conditions, is 500. Just too many things to go wrong beyond that for my comfort level.

Even if you shoot perfect at 1000 you are giving WKRs too much time to take your BOL when he goes out of sight.

Shoot not only BOL, but your HTML and your POR.

 

[EdP]

When I was limited to practice at 200 yds I was confident out to 400 using drop data from a ballistic program and took my first pronghorn at 402 in that time. I can now practice out to 600 yds and make consistent hits on steel at that distance but I still don't like shooting at game beyond 400. I can and have under carefully considered circumstances but I much prefer to get closer. Although I can practice holds and know the drops, the wind is the big factor that concerns me at the longer distances.

 

[I hunt_dm3]

I don’t know what it should be. I think that is on each person and it is more than a hit percentage. It can’t be 100% as there is no such thing. If someone says it’s 95%- is that 95% first round kills? What about 2nd or third? Does that percentage include the ability to quickly make follow up corrections? The ability to track? Etc.

The deal is that hit rates past 200-300’ish yards are lower than most will admit/think if mountainous conditions and wind are present, and especially with any time constraint. Trained, practiced shooters that practice in those conditions will be able to call wind over 400 yards within 3-4 mph day in and day out.
This has been what I have seen with hundreds of shooters and tens of thousands of rounds practicing in unknown conditions in the mountains- with winds between 5-10 MPH over broken terrain, trained shooters can call it within 4mph 90% of the time. That causes quite a few misses past 400 yards, and a bunch of those will be high or low misses due to up and down drafts.



Me personally, my judgment is based on having an extremely high probability of standing over animal at the end- high probability being 95+ percent. That doesn’t necessarily mean a 95% probability of first round hit, it means that if I shoot at an animal, I have a better than 95% chance of recovering that animal. There have been animals that I my first round hit probability would have been over 90%that I did not shoot because if it was not a vital hit, the probability of recovery would have been 50/50 at best. Conversely, there have been shots I have taken that my first round hit was 70’ish percent, but the odd of a second shot being lethal and the circumstances meant that recovery was as close to 100% as possible.

Very well said, but it goes back to my original post. What is the longest distance you practice and longest distance you would shoot at an animal. My max would be 800 yards with conditions I am comfortable with. That doesn’t mean I should shoot that, or that I will hit every time, but I am confident that I could based on the conditions I have practiced in. But even in known conditions, I wouldn’t shoot past that at an animal at this time. I probabaly shouldn’t have used the word effective, should have asked what is your max shooting distance in conditions you are comfortable shooting in. That is of course very animal, weapon, and weather specific.

 

[Seeknelk]

This year, I had a very large bull ,in country where they are a needle in a haystack to find, at 900 yards even. Directly cross deep canyon, no wind , giant open hill. Nice prone position, spotter with me.
One factor was missing and that was my practice this year. I didn't shoot nearly enough due to life and choices to do other things. So I didn't shoot. Tried to close the distance but in this country that meant 2k vertical down ,doing the monkey swing thru alders etc and when we got to the bottom we were the same distance and much worse situation . And almost dark. So we hiked out.
I went and practiced the best week to 1100. And I'm glad I didn't shoot. Me and my system were not quite tuned for that shot. Next year will be different. And I'll kill one at 50 yards hopefully.
So my MER changes for sure. If I'm tuned up , 1k is doable in perfect conditions. Perfect. That's if I shoot a lot but I don't have a number. I'd guess 300 rounds of center fire and a thousand longer range 100-300 yards, with the 22. I'd like to shoot even more. Goal is to burn out the 300 prc barrel this year.

 

[Dennis]

I little follow up from my comments on page one and some lessons I learned shooting in the wind and from field rests. I hope some of these comments and ideas can be helpful to some, as I believe they have helped me understand what is my effective range in reality and why. As several guys have stated it truly depends!

Below are some of the lessons I learned while shooting in mountain field conditions in the wind at 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 yards at life size deer targets in areas where I hunt. Again I am not a long range shooter, just a hunter trying to improve my shooting skills and learn my limitations in actual field conditions.

My goal was to learn at what distances I could shoot accurately enough for clean hits, standing, kneeing, sitting, shooting sticks, bipods and tripods with and without rear rests etc.. I coupled these lessons along with how does wind effect my accuracy as the distance increases.

I can quickly see in the scope how steady I am and make adjustments in my shooting style or rest, but what is the wind doing and how does that effect my actual accuracy on target is the great unknown at least to me. While I do sometimes use a wind meter, watch vegetation, and take my spotting scope out of focus to watch heat waves. I don;t think I have mastered the skill as I think broken terrain and shifting winds seem to screw up my wind calls and others I have shot with. If I place my targets in front of brush etc. I can not see my first shot impact nor make a correction. This is somewhat improved with a good spotter sitting along side to call the shot however, a miss is still a miss.

I learned that as the range increases I needed to increase the stability of my rests to make more and more precise hits at distance. This was all pretty straight forward out to about 400 yards and good groups and good hits were pretty common with a good rest. Then I got to about 500 yards and learned that no matter how steady I was if the wind was blowing or thermals were rising or dropping I had a high likelihood of missing or wounding my targets or my 8" steel plate. The wind and thermals are the problem and here in Colorado the wind seems to change speed and direction moment by moment thus effecting my groups and accuracy. However there have been a few days with no wind and everything is still. I closing I hope some of my lessons can help others determine what is right for them and the animals they hunt. Good luck to all!

 

[Formidilosus]

Very well said, but it goes back to my original post. What is the longest distance you practice and longest distance you would shoot at an animal. My max would be 800 yards with conditions I am comfortable with. That doesn’t mean I should shoot that, or that I will hit every time, but I am confident that I could based on the conditions I have practiced in. But even in known conditions, I wouldn’t shoot past that at an animal at this time.

I average 5,000-10,000 rounds a year shooting between 300-600 yards. A further 2,000-5,000 rounds from 600’ish to 1,200 yards. And usually 1,000- 2,000 rounds past 1,200 yards and out to 2,000’ish yards. All of those are in the field, off of a standard range in varied terrain and wind, tracking hit probabilities and wind calling ability. I purposely look for the worst conditions to shoot in- I live in a very windy, mountainous place and shoot in 30-60mph winds cross canyons near weekly.

With that, I will shoot an animal at any range that my “success” is high probability (95+%). Usually that is dictated by sufficient impact velocity to cause reliable bullet upset; wind and terrain conditions that are readable to within 2 mph if alone plus the capability to spot my own shots- terrain and ground behind the animal that helps/hinders bullet splash, or if I have a spotter- their skill at spotting shots/misses and their ability to quickly give corrections; the ability to locate and reach the impact spot and spot that the animal was last seen if it gets out of sight, tracking conditions (solid snow is much better than dry, rocky ground), fitness of myself and whoever I am with to track and find the animal in whatever terrain it may travel into/through, etc.

In other words it is not a simple nor hard distance. It cannot be. Well I suppose if one can only shoot to a certain range regularly- that should in all probability be their max range unless it is follow ups on a wounded animal.

I probabaly shouldn’t have used the word effective, should have asked what is your max shooting distance in conditions you are comfortable shooting in. That is of course very animal, weapon, and weather specific.

I think it’s the most central discussion about shooting/killing animals that almost never gets discussed, and when it does it is way too superficial. My thoughts/experience based on shooting a lot, and killing and seeing killed a lot of animals by near any ones standards is that most are way too flippant about range and shooting animals. When people who are asking what bullet/rifle/scope they need or want and are talking about using it for shooting animals at 600, 800, 1000 yards (why is it always even numbers?) my eye starts twitching. When someone is writing that they are good to “x” distance, but when asked how many rounds they shoot in a year and it’s double or at most triple digit. Or how often they shoot to “x” range and it’s never, or a couple times a year… How do they believe that they are “good to” any range? It isn’t just the “confidence” to hit at “x” range, it’s the knowledge and skill to recover and correct quickly and precisely when you do miss or wound.

Where are the “how do I become effective at 800 yards” threads?

 

[Fatcamp]

Practice to 600, will shoot at game at 400.

Never killed an animal over 300.

3 mule deer, 1 whitetail, and 2 antelope over the last four years? since we started have all been one shot kills. I'm good with that.

Distance is all me related. Some day that limit will bite me, but for now I'm happy.

 

[Brook.Trout]

We’ll been working on shooting further, really got into the long range 1.5 years ago, our home range goes to 1400 meters, anything between 660 yards and like 1100 has been down. So I practice up to 660! I’m comfortable to 600 yards in good condition, 500 now is no worries at all

 

[WJM1000]

I average 5,000-10,000 rounds a year shooting between 300-600 yards. A further 2,000-5,000 rounds from 600’ish to 1,200 yards. And usually 1,000- 2,000 rounds past 1,200 yards and out to 2,000’ish yards. All of those are in the field, off of a standard range in varied terrain and wind, tracking hit probabilities and wind calling ability. I purposely look for the worst conditions to shoot in- I live in a very windy, mountainous place and shoot in 30-60mph winds cross canyons near weekly.

With that, I will shoot an animal at any range that my “success” is high probability (95+%). Usually that is dictated by sufficient impact velocity to cause reliable bullet upset; wind and terrain conditions that are readable to within 2 mph if alone plus the capability to spot my own shots- terrain and ground behind the animal that helps/hinders bullet splash, or if I have a spotter- their skill at spotting shots/misses and their ability to quickly give corrections; the ability to locate and reach the impact spot and spot that the animal was last seen if it gets out of sight, tracking conditions (solid snow is much better than dry, rocky ground), fitness of myself and whoever I am with to track and find the animal in whatever terrain it may travel into/through, etc.

In other words it is not a simple nor hard distance. It cannot be. Well I suppose if one can only shoot to a certain range regularly- that should in all probability be their max range unless it is follow ups on a wounded animal.





I think it’s the most central discussion about shooting/killing animals that almost never gets discussed, and when it does it is way too superficial. My thoughts/experience based on shooting a lot, and killing and seeing killed a lot of animals by near any ones standards is that most are way too flippant about range and shooting animals. When people who are asking what bullet/rifle/scope they need or want and are talking about using it for shooting animals at 600, 800, 1000 yards (why is it always even numbers?) my eye starts twitching. When someone is writing that they are good to “x” distance, but when asked how many rounds they shoot in a year and it’s double or at most triple digit. Or how often they shoot to “x” range and it’s never, or a couple times a year… How do they believe that they are “good to” any range? It isn’t just the “confidence” to hit at “x” range, it’s the knowledge and skill to recover and correct quickly and precisely when you do miss or wound.

Where are the “how do I become effective at 800 yards” threads?

Long range hunter/hunting

I’ve been long-range hunting (over 20 years) and have been a 1000-yard completive shooter for a number of years and winning a IBS/NBRSA national championship for 1000 yard score and two state championships for smallest group.

First off, to be successful you must have excellent equipment to do the job, that’s fairly easy to do if you have the money to buy what is required. In my opinion the weakest link in the chain is the scope, buy the best you can afford, the rifle can sometimes be purchased off the shelf, manufactured by several commercial rifle makers. That being said, in my opinion if you’re going to spend your hard-earned dollars, go to a qualified gun builder and have a custom barrel chambered in your favorite caliber. That will take care of part of the equation.

Now for the hard part is acquiring the skill set. I really don’t know how to tell you how to go about it, other tan practice when the conditions are bad at the longest range you can, 300 to 500 yards or so would be good. Shorter ranges can work, but not be as dramatic of changes as the longer ranges. I should mention quality ammunition is of major importance. (Good scope + good rifle + bad ammo = bad groups.) When shooting in windy conditions I pay close attention to the wind in front of the rifle, when the bullet exits the barrel gravity and wind acts on it immediately and stars to pull it down and in the direction of the wind and I think it effects it the most at that moment a few thousands of deflections at the muzzle can be huge at distance. I also look at the conditions along the bullets' path that can counteract or add to what’s happening at the muzzle, and I’ll adjust accordingly. I don’t pay too much attention to what’s happening at the target except for light conditions, the bullet is already there.

In all honesty, while having many one shot kills at distance, I’ve also had my share of near misses on the first shot, but if having an opportunity for a second shot I more often than not make a clean kill. In the many years of hunting long-range, I never crippled one and have it got away. On rare occasions, I did have to shoot an animal again, not wanting to let it bleed-out and suffer.

I’ll probably have a lot of blow-back on this and maybe called BS, but this is what works for me.

 

[Pony Soldier]

I hunt jungles. It is rare that I can see animals beyond 200 yds. Yesterday I shot a trotting coyote at about 275 yds. I shot another at 325 yds 3 years ago. It would be pretty rare that I would encounter that for elk.

I did kill a little bull at 650 yds in the 80s under ideal conditions but I was younger then and ill-experienced. I killed one a few years ago offhand at about at about 150 yds running so I guess something under 200 would be my preference as most of my shots are offhand.

My biggest concern is unseen limbs/branches. When you are shooting through a 4 inch hole between the branches at an elk at 40-50 yds, you can only hope for success.

I can see the finger pointers among you preparing so here is my reference. In 58 seasons I have only nicked two that I didn't take home. I tracked them uphill for over 3 miles after the blood stopped. Both were shots under 50 yds in heavy tree cover. Jungles are not very willing to give up their residents. I'm sure the north Idaho folks have similar stories.

Just a differant reference from the open space folks.

 

[Ryan Avery]

You can have different effective ranges depending on the setup. For instance, there's is a place I use to hunt a ton. I built a heavy .338 for that area and I practiced in that drainage a lot. I cold bore shot a bull elk in there at 1583 yards. There was another shot on a moose. I shot him at 1775 yards but I used a sighter shot about 50 yards to his left to figure out the wind. I cold bore shot a bear at 1509 in this drainage. These rifles were built for 1000 yards plus. Both had 30" barrels shooting 300-grain bullets around 3100 FPS. But with all things, you learn from experience and I didn't like what I was seeing from bullet performance at those ranges.

While practicing/hunting with a lighter rifle you notice your effective range shrinks(if you're honest) I don't know who coined the phrase but I like it. "You need to shoot enough to know when not to shoot." And most people don't shoot enough including myself some years.

 

[slowelk]

I built a heavy .338

Just curious - how heavy? Were you close to the 16# ID limit?

 

[Ryan Avery]

Just curious - how heavy? Were you close to the 16# ID limit?

Both were barely Idaho legal. I did have one weighed by the F&G.

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[WJM1000]

You can have different effective ranges depending on the setup. For instance, there's is a place I use to hunt a ton. I built a heavy .338 for that area and I practiced in that drainage a lot. I cold bore shot a bull elk in there at 1583 yards. There was another shot on a moose. I shot him at 1775 yards but I used a sighter shot about 50 yards to his left to figure out the wind. I cold bore shot a bear at 1509 in this drainage. These rifles were built for 1000 yards plus. Both had 30" barrels shooting 300-grain bullets around 3100 FPS. But with all things, you learn from experience and I didn't like what I was seeing from bullet performance at those ranges.

While practicing/hunting with a lighter rifle you notice your effective range shrinks(if you're honest) I don't know who coined the phrase but I like it. "You need to shoot enough to know when not to shoot." And most people don't shoot enough including myself some years.

Great shooting and doping. What is/was the parent case? I’m shooting 300 Berger Elite Hunter at 3200 fps. It’s off of 408 CheyTac case.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Great shooting and doping. What is/was the parent case? I’m shooting 300 Berger Elite Hunter at 3200 fps. It’s off of 408 CheyTac case.

One was 338 Edge +P(300 Rum Parent) The other was a 338 Terminator(338 Lapua Parent)

We also built a 338 Snipetac(408 Cheytac Parent) it sent a 300 Berger at 3300 FPS. My buddy shot a cow elk with it at 1600 ish yards.


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[mxgsfmdpx]

You can have different effective ranges depending on the setup. For instance, there's is a place I use to hunt a ton. I built a heavy .338 for that area and I practiced in that drainage a lot. I cold bore shot a bull elk in there at 1583 yards. There was another shot on a moose. I shot him at 1775 yards but I used a sighter shot about 50 yards to his left to figure out the wind. I cold bore shot a bear at 1509 in this drainage. These rifles were built for 1000 yards plus. Both had 30" barrels shooting 300-grain bullets around 3100 FPS. But with all things, you learn from experience and I didn't like what I was seeing from bullet performance at those ranges.

While practicing/hunting with a lighter rifle you notice your effective range shrinks(if you're honest) I don't know who coined the phrase but I like it. "You need to shoot enough to know when not to shoot." And most people don't shoot enough including myself some years.

1 mile confirmed kill on a moose could be a record I'd imagine? That's incredible.

 

[WJM1000]

One was 338 Edge +P(300 Rum Parent) The other was a 338 Terminator(338 Lapua Parent)

We also built a 338 Snipetac(408 Cheytac Parent) it sent a 300 Berger at 3300 FPS. My buddy shot a cow elk with it at 1600 ish yards.


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When I pushed the earlier 300 Berger at 3400 they came apart. Been a little gun shy going there again. What Powder and charge did you use in the 408 case.

 

[Ryan Avery]

When I pushed the earlier 300 Berger at 3400 they came apart. Been a little gun shy going there again. What Powder and charge did you use in the 408 case.

139g of H50BMG


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[prm]

139g of H50BMG


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That’s called artillery!

Not really sure what my max effective range would be. I thought about it and can’t really pin a number. Shooting hogs running through timber would be quite different than a bull elk standing broadside on a calm morning. I never seem to have a spot to get prone when I find elk or mule deer so the position, my ability to get steady, limits my range. Figuring out the wind is not a skill I am proficient so that might limit my range though other factors seem to come in before wind. I don’t always hunt with cartridges that keep bullets above 1800-2000fps really far out there, so that can limit my range. I do not believe animals are out there to serve as a test of my shooting ability, so if in the moment I don’t absolutely believe I have all the variables solved and a reasonably steady hold, I don’t shoot. I also like stalking animals, so the shooting part tends to be anti climactic. It’s hunting, not war, not survival, there is no real consequence to me of an unfilled tag beyond a hit to the ego thus I do not push the ranges which effectively limits my range. Bottom line, I have neither the equipment nor the practical field shooting experience to justify shooting very far. I certainly wouldn’t be against improving on my ability to shoot further which if I move back out west I will do!

 

[WJM1000]

If you think being able to read the wind is not a skill , you probably never shot at anything over a couple hundred yards. If Shooting at running hogs in timber is ethical to you fine, go for it. For me, I feel more comfortable shooting at a deer at 1000 yards standing broadside than a running hog or what ever at 50 yards. I’ve taken many deer by stalking with a revolver, a rifle, also with a bow from a tree stand. But I’ll take long-range hunting over any other methods.