What is the group size you are happy with?

[glennjones]

For 98% of the hunting I do 3 moa is fine as the majority of the critters I kill are well under 200 yards. I've got a couple rifles that shoot 1-1.5 moa and they are a blast to shoot but absolutely not necessary.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Cold bore is what your going to get when your hunting, so why not practice that way.

Because with a properly manufactured barrel the cold bore will fall within the cone of fire, so it's not necessary.

 

[Weldor]

Whatever works for you. sounds like your an expert, we'll leave it at that. You shoot your way I'll shoot mine.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Whatever works for you. sounds like your an expert, we'll leave it at that. You shoot your way I'll shoot mine.

Just trying to help.

 

[coyotekilla]

For 98% of the hunting I do 3 moa is fine as the majority of the critters I kill are well under 200 yards. I've got a couple rifles that shoot 1-1.5 moa and they are a blast to shoot but absolutely not necessary.

98% of the hunting i do, 3 moa is a miss. A foxes vitals are about 3 moa, a 100 yd neck shot on whitetail is 3 ish. I will take 1 moa, but prefer 1/2.

 

[RandalH]

Under 1” makes me happy.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

If I can’t put 10 shots into an inch shooting from the bench at 100 yards with a new rifle, I am not interested in the rifle unless it has some cool factor. For some of my older rifles, I will accept less.

For instance, I can put 10 shots into a four inch circle from the bench with my old Model 1886 .45-70. To me, that was “good enough” for deer at up to about 150 yards to hunt with it until I got a buck with it. Yes, I know that a whitetails vitals are approximately 8”. But, it is unrealistic to expect bench accuracy in the field. There are tons of known unknowns in the field and often unknown unknowns too. I hunted with it for a few days each season, usually in rainy or foggy weather when visibility was limited and I could move really quietly, until I got a nice buck with it. But I don’t plan to use it again anytime soon. Unless the Commonwealth ever decides to let us use a .45-70 during blackpowder season.

I know that I am the largest source of error, so I want to minimize other sources of error to a reasonable extent where I can. And that means I want the smallest group practicable and that I practice a lot shooting from field positions.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[5811]

As soon as I read Form and others talk about Wez hit rates not changing much from 1 to 1.5 moa, I decided 1.5 was my limit for hunting rifles. It has served me well. I'm getting the hits I want and not wasting time and $ and barrel life.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

As soon as I read Form and others talk about Wez hit rates not changing much from 1 to 1.5 moa, I decided 1.5 was my limit for hunting rifles. It has served me well. I'm getting the hits I want and not wasting time and $ and barrel life.

Yes, I agree with that. I’d still prefer under an inch though. Just something special about that number. Psychologically.

When I was younger, I got a .270 that my dad cast off because it only shot a 1.5” group with factory ammunition. He suggested I try reloading for it to see if more could be done with it. So, I ordered 100 pieces of new Winchester brass and 600 130-grain bullets for it. But, before I reloaded with it, I decided to shoot it some more. I discovered that she would do that 1.5” group for box after box of Remington factory ammunition. Thirty years and dozens of groundhogs, a pile of deer, a couple of wild turkeys, and a lot of paper later, I have about 800 pieces of fired Remington brass, 100 pieces of unfired Winchester brass, and 600 130-grain bullets. She isn’t the first rifle I choose to get out of the safe, but she never disappoints. If I could find a woman that good, I wouldn’t be divorced.

Edit - for the sake of completing the story... My beloved father decided the rifle wasn't good enough for him after firing six shots from it. Three to sight it in. Three for a group. Please don't be that dad.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Packmansion]

Reloading isn't a skill. It is an opportunity to express your mental disorders to other people on forums. You can tell a lot about a person based on how they reload.

 

[Vern400]

What you have is fine.
Last year I hunted with a 1.5 moa rifle. Worn Barrel.
For hunting, two independent five shot groups May teach you more if the barrel basically starts the groups at a similar temperature. The Cold bore shot is more important than any other. After 6 or 8 shots you're kind of testing for what your Barrel does when it gets hot. The ultimate test would be one cold bore shot per day? And I'm talking about correlation to actual usage, not necessarily simple rifle precision.

This year I am just right at 1 MOA with a new Barrel.

I have shot several five shot groups in the 0.6s but they were using match bullets. I'll keep playing with it until I get the same performance from a hunting bullet. But I'm out of time for now. That totally won't mess with my head.

When I'm done I'll load a single batch of 300 and never look back.

And dang. I have 200+ from the old barrel I need to shoot for fun or pull them. It's all I shot since 1993.

 

[Packmansion]

If you're group sizes are big hop 3 times on your right foot and throw some salt over your shoulder. If your es is big you need to eat just peanubutter and honey for 3 days straight. If you want to know how I learned this i bought a text book by a famous competition shooters and navy seal Joey bag of donuts. I also went to Joey's shooting camp. If that doesnt work buy the Joey bag of donuts barrel tuner, the best $300 I've ever spent! A precision machined paper weight made of Chinese steel! It cut my groups down by .0001 inches!

 

[wapitibob]

Why don’t you shoot some groups at 400 and see how it does? I’d gauge my load from 400 over what you shot at 100.
This is how my .308 shoots at 600. I killed an antelope at 540 and an elk at 600 last year with this rifle. I was confident at those distances, as I test my loads for max range.
View attachment 884438

^^ this
shoot at your max range

 

[fishesman]

For the ranges you’re shooting an inch is perfectly acceptable. I’ve never understood 10-shot groups when testing a big game rifle. When will you ever shoot 10 shots at big game? Test your rifle under the conditions it’ll be used. 3-shot groups are perfect in my opinion. I’d much rather have data from three 3-shot groups than one 10-shot group. Let your rifle throughly cool between groups.

 

[General RE LEE]

For the ranges you’re shooting an inch is perfectly acceptable. I’ve never understood 10-shot groups when testing a big game rifle. When will you ever shoot 10 shots at big game? Test your rifle under the conditions it’ll be used. 3-shot groups are perfect in my opinion. I’d much rather have data from three 3-shot groups than one 10-shot group. Let your rifle throughly cool between groups.

3 shot groups don’t provide enough data. You can have 3 lucky shots and get a good group, but realistically it could shoot 2” in other 3 shot groups.

10+ shot groups tell a better story of what is a platform’s cone of fire.

 

[Tx270WT]

Is chasing data and crunching numbers fun? You bet it is. It’s fun to get a precise rifle, but for a hunting gun, the cold bore guys nailed it. If I’m taking ten shots hunting, it been a bad day unless your smoking pigs.

 

[fishesman]

3 shot groups don’t provide enough data. You can have 3 lucky shots and get a good group, but realistically it could shoot 2” in other 3 shot groups.

10+ shot groups tell a better story of what is a platform’s cone of fire.

Three 3-shot groups provide 9 data points collected under conditions similar to how the rifle might be used in the field. I could care less what the cone of fire will be after three shots. For a target or varmint rifle 10 shots make perfect sense.

 

[Packmansion]

Three 3-shot groups provide 9 data points collected under conditions similar to how the rifle might be used in the field. I could care less what the cone of fire will be after three shots. For a target or varmint rifle 10 shots make perfect sense.

For any rifle no matter what its purpose you need larger groups sizes to collect enough data. 3 3 shot groups is ok as long as you treat them as a composite. 5 - 5 shot groups is better.

 

[Packmansion]

Three 3-shot groups provide 9 data points collected under conditions similar to how the rifle might be used in the field. I could care less what the cone of fire will be after three shots. For a target or varmint rifle 10 shots make perfect sense.

Incorrect

 

[General RE LEE]

Three 3-shot groups provide 9 data points collected under conditions similar to how the rifle might be used in the field. I could care less what the cone of fire will be after three shots. For a target or varmint rifle 10 shots make perfect sense.

Three 3 groups is nine shots. How is that much different than a 10 shot group? BTW, I allow barrel to cool between shots. I’m not banging out 10 rounds as fast as I can.