What is the group size you are happy with?

[Luked]

Will be shooting it at distance to see what it will do when I can get to the range.
Too many things going on at home to get much time to do much right now.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Will be shooting it at distance to see what it will do when I can get to the range.
Too many things going on at home to get much time to do much right now.

I hear ya. I went to the range yesterday for the first time in a month.

 

[bpitcher]

10 shots - 1MOA or less is my standard.

 

[Walla7]

Why don’t you shoot some groups at 400 and see how it does? I’d gauge my load from 400 over what you shot at 100.
This is how my .308 shoots at 600. I killed an antelope at 540 and an elk at 600 last year with this rifle. I was confident at those distances, as I test my loads for max range.
View attachment 884438

absolutely beautiful shooting dude

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

What you have there is very good for a factory rifle. I've only ever had one factory hunting rifle (out of dozens over the years) that was substantially sub MOA legitimately -- by which I mean 30 rounds, comfortably under an inch, in one ragged and round hole (shooting slow enough the barrel doesn't overheat). Otherwise, around 1.25 ish MOA is about as good as I have ever seen from any manufacturer.

Let a random number generator pick 5 numbers between 1 and 100. How often do you think it will pick both 1 and 100? Pretty much never, obviously. Now have the random number generator pick 2 random numbers 30 times in a row, and while it likely won't pick both 1 and 100 somewhere in there, it will likely get at least one down into the 10s and one up until the 90s. Now, imagine you did not know in advance the range was 1 and 100, and the purpose of your test was to figure out the maximum possible spread. Now amplify that principle by visualizing random points in a circle instead of a linear range. That's how measuring accuracy works.

 

[Tbieberle42]

I always prefer the smallest group possible but If I can get over 5 rounds under an inch with a lightweight hunting rifle im pretty happy. I usually get a bit better than that but that 1inch is more than adequate for 90% of what i do hunting wise in kansas

 

[Harvey_NW]

I try to get to sub MOA for 10 shots because it gives me more confidence in the rifle. That load will definitely do, but I would personally explore a bit more. I like to stay around .050" off the lands if possible, and as opposed to tweaking seating depth and powder charge I would test a different powder or bullet. Given that H4350 is awesome I would try the 140 or 147 ELD-M, or another tipped cup and core. I have some 140 TGK's I can send you 10 of to test if you want.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Big game hunting rifle - I am content with 3 shots in 1.5 inches at 100 yards.
For a rimfire used for small game it would be 1/2 inch at 50 yards.

 

[NevadaJ]

A five shot 1" MOA makes me very happy. I don't shoot over 400 yds unless I'm trying to kill a wounded animal.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Group size? The one that kills everything dead all the time.

 

[PathFinder]

With access to a WEZ calculator, that's what I use to decide. Then validate the mathematical model in the field. 10 shot groups as a minimum, once I know what the barrel can do that number gets punched into the WEZ at the target max range for that rifle. If the group size isn't messing with the hit rate much, that's good enough. Once it becomes statistically insignificant to go from 1.5 MOA to 1 MOA, then I quite messing with it. Getting down to 1 MOA or less becomes a question of opportunity cost in terms of both time and money. New barrels are expensive and typically take a long time to get, then require load development. More load development rarely makes much difference, and that's a trade off in time and money too.
My conclusion over the last 11 barrels/rifles is that if a rifle will shoot 1.5 MOA or better, with an effective bullet, then there's little or nothing to gain chasing anything better. Those rifles and results were:

• Ruger Precision 6mm CM- 1 MOA. Maybe better. Should have kept this one.
• Ruger American 6.5 CM - 1.5 MOA
• Tikka T3 Superlite 7mm RM - 1.25 MOA
• Bergara HMR 6.5 CM - 1 MOA
• Odinworks 223 Wylde on a Larue UUK - 1.5 MOA (200+ rounds of load dev/testing, never shot better)
• Larue Stealth Barrel on Larue UUK - 1.5 MOA (200+ rounds of load dev/testing, never shot better)
• Tikka T3x Lite 300 WSM - 1.25 MOA
• CA Summit 6.5 CM - 2 MOA (only one that got sold for accuracy, lots of load dev trying to do better)
• PVA Osprey 6 UM on Tikka - 1.5 MOA at best, quickly 2+ MOA. Pulled at 250 rounds, wasted 150 rounds trying to "find a load it liked."
• Bartlein 6 UM on a Tikka - 1.5 MOA
• Kimber Hunter 6.5 CM- 1.5 MOA

If you want to maximize success actually hunting, get a 1.5 MOA or better rifle that holds zero and functions properly. Then spend time shooting in the field and scouting.

 

[drewturner]

That group looks good. I think small groups are always the goal but shooting ~1” groups will be good enough. learning to shoot from positions you would encounter in the field is also very important. One other thing is I would not recommend loading bullets close to the lands in a hunting rifle. If you ever pull a bullet when unchambering a loaded round it is a pain to get all the powder out of the action.
Good shooting!

 

[General RE LEE]

I had a paradigm shift in my thinking when I started joining long range gun clubs. I used to strive for the absolute smallest 100 yard groups. When I started shooting steel plates at 300 yards and beyond, I learned quickly a 1-1.5 MOA load will hit a vital sized steel plate at 500 yards with high frequency.

I now find a load that is easy on my brass and groups 1 MOA or better.

 

[General RE LEE]

Here is a load I am very happy with.

6.5 Creedmoor
143 ELDX
H4350 41.5 grains
Alpha brass

Once I got a good zero and my DOPE, I went through a “know your limits” rack of steel plates at 600 yards.

 

[Weldor]

Here's what I look for in a hunting rifle. This is a 280 AI Kimber (super lightweight barrel) 3 shots. Suppressed slow fire.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Here's what I look for in a hunting rifle. This is a 280 AI Kimber (super lightweight barrel) 3 shots. Suppressed slow fire.

There's up to 70% variability with 3 shot groups, so the next 3 could go 1.7". If the rifle repeats that group multiple times with the same relative POI, that's a different story. But in many cases they don't, and this is why sample size matters, and most posted 3 shot groups are cherry picked.

 

[coyotekilla]

For me, it depends on the rifle. I keep data on my rifles so I know if I'm at its limits or still need to chase the right load. Was shooting my tikka 22-250 and all 4 loads went 1.2 to .8 moa... not happy, cause that rifle will do .2 & .3's if feed properly. Another rifle, my beretta brx1 does .7's... So I factor that into wither or not I like that load in that rifle. Some guns will be 1.5 moa, others .25 moa

 

[SouthPaw]

For big game animals 0-600yds, 1.2ish moa for 10 shots is plenty good for me. I took a 1.7moa load on a "once in a lifetime" hunt and had no hesitation with the 452 shot I took kneeling off a log. Not just because I knew the gun/load was fine, but moreso because I spent all spring and summer practicing building position smooth/quick and breaking a good shot under pressure.

Once the gun/load is consistetly 1.5ish moa, other factors matter far more.

 

[sdupontjr]

Chasing small groups can get expensive and somewhat OCD. I like all of my rifles to do what I need them to do in their respective situation. In my hunting situations, Groups are fine, but I'm more interested in the 1st cold bore shot. Thats #1 for me. Shot placement of the cold bore shot is the most important. In over 40 years of hunting, I can count on 1 hand how many times I had to use a follow up shot. If load development and the rifle combo have no POI shift from cold bore to groups, then that an added advantage. But again, that's my hunting situation. Ideally, I'd like to take a cold bore shot, then leave for the day. Come back next day, same target, another cold bore shot. Do this for a week and see if that 1st shot is repeatable and if so determine that group.

 

[Weldor]

Cold bore is what your going to get when your hunting, so why not practice that way. When I am working up loads for a rifle, I always shot a cold bore. if it likes the load, then I will shot it but with barrel cooler between shots.