What is the ELD-M, Berger, TMK of muzzleloader bullets?

[Brandon.miller.4]

As the title states, what's the most violent muzzleloading bullet? Looking for maximum expansion on game and largest wound channels. 50 cal muzzy fyi.

 

[Chris in TN]

Pittman aeromax? Arrowhead NSR? Parker?

I can’t handle the recoil so I shoot saboted .40 Fury 225s in a smokeless .45. 59 grains of imr4198. That’s my ‘hot’ load. 2550’ from a 23” 1-18” mcgowen barrel.


ETA: with my kids hunting now I don’t even use that load anymore. We hunted with 33 grains of N110 this year and a Hornady SST.

FWIW the Hornady xtp pistol bullets will expand violently when pushed north of 2000’.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Pittman aeromax? Arrowhead NSR? Parker?

I can’t handle the recoil so I shoot saboted .40 Fury 225s in a smokeless .45. 59 grains of imr4198. That’s my ‘hot’ load. 2550’ from a 23” 1-18” mcgowen barrel.


ETA: with my kids hunting now I don’t even use that load anymore. We hunted with 33 grains of N110 this year and a Hornady SST.

FWIW the Hornady xtp pistol bullets will expand violently when pushed north of 2000’.

Why not stick with the fury for the kids. IMO it’s a much better bullet than the sst

 

[Chris in TN]

Why not stick with the fury for the kids. IMO it’s a much better bullet than the sst

The Fury weighs 225 grains. SST weighs 200 (this is 40 caliber saboted in a .45).


I agree that the Fury is a better bullet. But deer aren't that hard to kill. The SST works fine for what we do with it.

ETA: My oldest hunted with my old .50 and 33,0N110 and a 250 grain hornady 452 XTP this year. Very good deer killer at the short ranges we hunt. Possibly better than the SST, IMO, if the shot is close enough to keep the speed up - which most of our muzzleloader shots are .

 

[Pickettpuncher]

I guess I’m just not a fan of a sabot, and don’t like an sst lol. I do understand trying to keep the recoil down. I’ve been working on it with mine.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

This would primarily be for western hunting. Idaho and possibly other states. What is your argument for or against sabots?

 

[LCguy]

Here's a Barnes I found on the off-side hide of a bull elk after a 127 yard shot. Not a super hot load either, 90 gr/v of Triple 7 FFG.

The more important question is which bullet shoots best out of your specific gun? You could buy the most expensive bullet out there, but if it doesn't group our of your gun, it's useless to you.

 

[Caseknife]

Idaho is not very liberal on Muzzy, might want to check the regs.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

This would primarily be for western hunting. Idaho and possibly other states. What is your argument for or against sabots?

Sabots are the weak link. You can push a sized bullet harder. If you’re not pushing it tho, it doesn’t really matter. At one time, a sabot also limited your options, but fury has stepped up along with Pittman. Once I had a die it was really a no brainer.

 

[Chris in TN]

This would primarily be for western hunting. Idaho and possibly other states. What is your argument for or against sabots?

My sole argument for sabots, given current technology, is to shoot smaller diameter bullets so I can get better BCs relative to recoil.

A Fury 40/225 in a sabot, from a .45, can be effective at far greater distances than I will shoot, without beating you to death. I can get 2550' r maybe 2600' with moderate recoil. Step up to 250-325 grain bore diameter bullets at the same speeds for similar trajectories and recoil gets serious.

Take away the concern for recoil and I have no other argument to make. Bore-diameter projectiles can be pretty awesome, once you get past the recoil. And they'll certainly be more accurate when you step on the gas. Sabots start getting wonky above maybe 2600' at best.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

Idaho is not very liberal on Muzzy, might want to check the regs.

Idaho has changed their regs. I hunted prior with their old laws and had to use full bore lead. New regs allow for 209 primers, sabots, jacketed bullets, etc.

 

[jonnyviceroy]

Pittman aero max. Absolutely devastating wound channels. Largest I’ve ever seen of any projectile. 40 cal 228’s

 

[PathFinder]

Arrowheads perform that way as well. Any of the bullets designed to be swaged to bore are thin jacketed enough to fragment quickly. The diameter beneath the aluminum tip is pretty big too, that also contributes. I've shot some deer and antelope with them, they behave just like a fragmenting rifle bullet.

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[satchamo]

SSTs

 

[BBob]

Take away the concern for recoil and I have no other argument to make. Bore-diameter projectiles can be pretty awesome, once you get past the recoil. And they'll certainly be more accurate when you step on the gas. Sabots start getting wonky above maybe 2600' at best.

Just to add to that and something I’ve seen with bullet to bore. With bullet to bore you have to hit them hard enough to get them to upset into the lands and if you don’t they’ll strip in the lands and won’t fly. Too light of a load and you might see them keyhole with no accuracy whatsoever.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Just to add to that and something I’ve seen with bullet to bore. With bullet to bore you have to hit them hard enough to get them to upset into the lands and if you don’t they’ll strip in the lands and won’t fly. Too light of a load and you might see them keyhole with no accuracy whatsoever.

That’s an issue with a full bore Barnes. I know of some that have tried annealing them to soften them. A wool wad helps as well. Some prefer a veggie wad. With the fury, arrowhead, pittman and Parker they all seem to have thin jackets and a relatively soft lead core that allows them obturate properly and expand. Most that I know still use a wad. The Parker BE shoots the best in mine, but the fury is a good economical choice. The Parker match hunter has probably done the most damage of all of them with the BE next in line for me. I’ll probably change to a Pittman clone next year.

 

[ElDiablito]

Sabots are the way to go for hunting. The “weak link” argument is absolute nonsense. You’ve got to get way up into the smokeless velocities before there could be an issue. I’ve shot saboted bullets in my SMLs up to 2700+ fps.

Frangible bullets? I like Parkers and Furys.

OP @Brandon.miller.4 What muzzy are you using??

 

[BasicUtahrd95]

I’m don’t have a ton of experience with muzzleloaders, but I’ve been pretty happy with the performance on deer from the power belt 295 gr aerotip copper hollow points the last two years. I’ve seen really rapid expansion on the entrance, lots of fragments throughout the wound channel, and the rear section of the bullet caught in the offside hide. Maybe not the best option for thicker critters as the bullet is pretty splashy on entrance and then the wound channel gets smaller from there.

Mule Deer Buck 2024
150 yd shot ~1700 fps MV

Entrance


Exit

Found the bullet in the offside hide.

I shot him in his bed. He stood up, walked 10 yards and tipped over.

Mule Deer Buck 2025
2 shots from ~140 yards ~1700 fps MV

Entrance




Two shots right next to each other on the right rear quarter. I messed up the stalk and spooked this buck at roughly 40 yards. He ran across the draw and I took an irresponsible standing offhand shot as he was running away. He stumbled down the hill a bit after the first shot and just stood still. I reloaded, put another one in him, he slid down the hill, bled out and died. Time to death after the first shot was under 2 minutes, even though I was nowhere close to the vitals. The top half of the rear quarter was destroyed. No exits. I didn’t open up the body cavity to look for the bullets.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

Sabots are the way to go for hunting. The “weak link” argument is absolute nonsense. You’ve got to get way up into the smokeless velocities before there could be an issue. I’ve shot saboted bullets in my SMLs up to 2700+ fps.

Frangible bullets? I like Parkers and Furys.

OP @Brandon.miller.4 What muzzy are you using??

Knight ultra-lite