What is Federal paying to shill for 7 backcountry?

[omicron1792]

I wonder if the hand waving here isn’t a little bit of sadness that the improved velocity and performance gained by the reloading crowd “might” expand to us factory ammo shooting non reloaders.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

They are just taking a page from the Hornady 6.5 marketing campaigns. Federal being a for profit company and this being a new cartridge, that may or may not be reloaded, represents a new rev stream for the company.

 

[HuntHarder]

I wonder if the hand waving here isn’t a little bit of sadness that the improved velocity and performance gained by the reloading crowd “might” expand to us factory ammo shooting non reloaders.

I agree, I am a reloader, but in my opinion this was opposite of a reloader cartridge. This allows factory ammo to be at higher pressures. That is why a bunch of people reload amongst various other reasons. Essentially pushing the edge of safe to shoot. Hell, Jake only shoots his ammo once because it's so hot.

 

[PsRpOiGrRiAtM]

I have a sneaking suspicion that if there was a S2H podcast about something they "just discovered," about stronger casings and performance in a shorter barrel, this crew would've been slobbering all over it. The fact that it was Federal and it didn't live up to *some* hype, has people foaming at the mouth. It's crazy how polarizing it is, but it shouldn't be a surprise in an archaic industry.

It's no different than the 6.5 Creedmoor or 77gr TMK scenario--there's a bit of a challenge to the status quo, but ultimately it moves us forward as an industry; an industry that holds brand loyalty and lore on a pedestal that's hard to dismantle.

Granted, there have been some teething issues with FTEs on some platforms, but overall it looks like this is a promising foundation for other cartridges to gain some performance. Hell, listen to some of the S2H podcasts about only 1x firing of brass before discarding and this might start sounding a tad more appealing.

Personally, I still haven't bought a 7 BC, because I already have a 6.5 PRC, but I'm following closely for an option to come in at a lighter weight, with a shorter platform, that's just as effective. But you can guarantee that I'm looking to see if there's a deal to get in on the platform based on performance claims.

 

[cal30_sniper]

WAY different steel

Do we know the respective alloys in use here?

I have no doubt that they’re different. I also have no very little doubt that even traditional steel cases have a higher tensile strength and hardness than cartridge brass. If we figure out effective reloading methods for peak alloy we may find they transfer well to traditional steel cases for higher pressure options on a budget. More likely, we see peak alloy cases introduced in other traditional calibers at some point, though I’d imagine SAAMI may not adopt that as appropriate.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Hell, listen to some of the S2H podcasts about only 1x firing of brass before discarding and this might start sounding a tad more appealing.

To me this is a pivotal point. We already have a ton of people (myself included) using hard, thick webbed brass like ADG to hide pressure signs that would probably blow primers and lock bolts with lesser brass. This tech could take that idea to the next level.

 

[UnckleBob]

Trying to create an unnecessary market. I miss the days the folks only had 3006, 270. 30-30, 243, etc. All still great rounds...

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A few things have changed since 1955.

Whether it is the Backcountry or some other product, high pressure rounds out of suppressed, short barrel rifles are the future.

The fact that Federal is pushing it again suggests sales were good enough to justify spending more money pushing their technology.

 

[199p]

The technology is cool even if this round ends up being a flop, i enjoy seeing people at least trying something different.

 

[UnckleBob]

And in a rifle that most likely weighs less with the shorter barrel. Recipe for missed shots.

In the field, the 7BC rifles rifles aren't going to end up much lighter than grandpa's 300 WM with a scope on it.

First, most people using a 7 BC will want a suppressor which immediately adds 8-16 oz. The more weight/lenght saved on the barrel, the heavier/longer the suppressor can be.

Second, it is easy to add weight back into a system: heavier profile barrel, heavier stock/chassis, heavier scopes.

The key factors favoring a 7 BV are barrel length and suppressors.

I am leaving for a deer hunt tomorrow morning.
- My 223 Tikka is staying home because it is not suppressed.
- My rifle with a 24" barrel is staying home because a 31" (24" + 6.5" can ) barrel would be a handful in the portable ground blind I might use for parts of the hunt.

 

[Bowfinn]

This video just popped up for me today. Looks like the Lee dies far FL sizing, but it appears to be relatively easy.

 

[Lou270]

Legacy gun/hunting magazine and hunting show advertising is dead to younger generation. Old guys who use the old media are the same ones that hate anything new. Hornady figured that out first and the Creeds and PRCs took off with younger generation. It is shocking how long it is taking orhers to accept this. Federal just jumping in apparently with 7BC influencer campaign while Winchester has not figured it out as they only seem to advertise on archery deer hunting shows (real smart for an ammo company). Just look at huge bump Trump got going on Podcasts.

Lou

 

[wyosam]

I don't understand all the pushback that 7BC has gotten in this community. It seems more like a groupthink of doing whatever the opposite that JVB recommends doing than objective consideration of what advantages a new look on old technology could bring to cartridge development across the board in coming decades.

Weird to see so many people dogging on a standard bolt face long action cartridge in 7mm when the 280AI seems to have attained almost cult like status doing the same thing.

Part of the advantage here seems to be that you don’t have to reload to take advantage of the higher than SAAMI pressure specs that hand loaders are so often leveraging in their special recipes. If you absolutely have to reload this, couldn’t you just use the available dies to form ‘06 brass cases and do it that way in a pinch (obviously without being able to take advantage of the higher pressure spec allowed by the alloy case).

New tech always comes with growing pains, but the open animosity for this cartridge seems to reside in the same logic garbage bin as the attacks on using 77TMKs in a .223 because they’re “too small” for big game.

I don’t find it surprising at all that this community isn’t very excited about this cartridge. For one, a large and growing segment of this community are moving away from magnums, or even what were pretty recently the standard and even smaller standard cartridges. People who don’t see a need to shoot a big boomer like a 7-08 probably aren’t about to get jazzed up for the 7BC. The tinkerer/reloaders have plenty of reason to be suspect. At this point, it seems pretty unlikely that this thing is suddenly going to start being reloadable in any traditional sense with equipment that’s already on people’s bench. Maybe the next alloy will, though I don’t think it’s actually a trait the makers have a real reason to focus on.

What it offers is cool- higher pressure means you get a little bit of a free lunch on recoil since you have less powder weight adding to recoil. Keeping velocities up in a shorter barrel is cool. But, as the small caliber/cartridge crowd on this site has shown, you only actually need so much with modern high BC bullets.

One contingent that DOES generally like a little bigger bore and wants/needs more velocity, is people who shoot monos. That is a place this cartridge can shine, as long as you like Federal’s offering. Unfortunately a lot of people who shoot monos have strong preferences for different types/makers of non lead bullet, so the reloading thing is a problem again.

This will work great for some people. Hopefully it keeps enough support to keep them shooting for the long term.


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[cal30_sniper]

I don’t find it surprising at all that this community isn’t very excited about this cartridge. For one, a large and growing segment of this community are moving away from magnums, or even what were pretty recently the standard and even smaller standard cartridges. People who don’t see a need to shoot a big boomer like a 7-08 probably aren’t about to get jazzed up for the 7BC. The tinkerer/reloaders have plenty of reason to be suspect. At this point, it seems pretty unlikely that this thing is suddenly going to start being reloadable in any traditional sense with equipment that’s already on people’s bench. Maybe the next alloy will, though I don’t think it’s actually a trait the makers have a real reason to focus on.

What it offers is cool- higher pressure means you get a little bit of a free lunch on recoil since you have less powder weight adding to recoil. Keeping velocities up in a shorter barrel is cool. But, as the small caliber/cartridge crowd on this site has shown, you only actually need so much with modern high BC bullets.

One contingent that DOES generally like a little bigger bore and wants/needs more velocity, is people who shoot monos. That is a place this cartridge can shine, as long as you like Federal’s offering. Unfortunately a lot of people who shoot monos have strong preferences for different types/makers of non lead bullet, so the reloading thing is a problem again.

This will work great for some people. Hopefully it keeps enough support to keep them shooting for the long term.


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All good points. I can certainly understand why people who are largely moving towards .223, .22 Creedmoor, and 6mm Creedmoor (or ARC, XC, GT, etc) wouldn't be cheerleading this cartridge (although I think a little critical thinking would indicate that if this cartridge finds success, other caliber variations are likely to follow, some of which are going to be in bore diameters that are very interesting to this forum).

What I don't really understand is why so many folks seem to have completely bypassed "I'm not going to buy this because it doesn't fit my needs" or "this is not for me but I could see where it's appealing to others" to what seems like an active smear campaign by significant number of members.

I think a lot more of the virulent commentary on this cartridge has to do with people jumping full-speed-ahead behind certain comments made on certain podcasts and a lot less to do with actual facts or critical thinking. There are plenty of reasons for folks to choose not to get behind this cartridge for their own use, but I can think of few/no reasons for people to go out of their way to smear it.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

All good points. I can certainly understand why people who are largely moving towards .223, .22 Creedmoor, and 6mm Creedmoor (or ARC, XC, GT, etc) wouldn't be cheerleading this cartridge (although I think a little critical thinking would indicate that if this cartridge finds success, other caliber variations are likely to follow, some of which are going to be in bore diameters that are very interesting to this forum).

What I don't really understand is why so many folks seem to have completely bypassed "I'm not going to buy this because it doesn't fit my needs" or "this is not for me but I could see where it's appealing to others" to what seems like an active smear campaign by significant number of members.

I think a lot more of the virulent commentary on this cartridge has to do with people jumping full-speed-ahead behind certain comments made on certain podcasts and a lot less to do with actual facts or critical thinking. There are plenty of reasons for folks to choose not to get behind this cartridge for their own use, but I can think of few/no reasons for people to go out of their way to smear it.

Excellent points. People are tribal.

 

[bnewt3]

Do we know the respective alloys in use here?

I have no doubt that they’re different. I also have no very little doubt that even traditional steel cases have a higher tensile strength and hardness than cartridge brass. If we figure out effective reloading methods for peak alloy we may find they transfer well to traditional steel cases for higher pressure options on a budget. More likely, we see peak alloy cases introduced in other traditional calibers at some point, though I’d imagine SAAMI may not adopt that as appropriate.

its proprietary and patented

I think if traditional steel offered any advantages, we would already see lots of people reloading 7.62x39 to match .30-06 or better.

Offering alloy cases in existing chamberings would be neat. I would like to think that SAAMI would be willing to publish a second set of specs; 1 brass, 1 alloy. I think it would come down to if there really isnt a difference in the rifle design/construction. Many cartridges would benefit from this, 308 and 6.5CM come to mind first as cartridges that would benefit greatly from this. a 6.5CM 140gr with an 18" barrel running 2800fps+ would be sweet.

 

[nm.otter]

If they sold a 6mm Creedmoor case in Peak alloy it would be game over for most everything else.

I'd actually expect to see smaller cases (relative to bore area) and likely not interchangeable with current SAAMI offerings (see: lawyers and insurance coverage).

I'm looking forward to 6mm ARC or GT capacities (and powder costs) that push 3,000 FPS out of 16" barrels.

New case alloys are the future.

Definitely. Not being dependent on copper will eventually make them much less expensive to manufacture (thus reducing the financial incentive for reloading).

the 7bc currently has 5 options on midway, all federal. Weird no one else has jumped in on it.

Likely because Federal has the alloy patent, and (at this point) the only factory line that can form cases out of it.

 

[bnewt3]

I'd actually expect to see smaller cases (relative to bore area) and likely not interchangeable with current SAAMI offerings (see: lawyers and insurance coverage).

You may be right, there is probably something im not thinking of.

However, many reloaders regularly run pressures above SAAMI sometimes well above, yet they still make and sell all the components, putting the liability on consumers.

It should be as simple as having 2 specs: 1 brass, 1 alloy.

all that assumes there really is no difference in the rifle.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

In the field, the 7BC rifles rifles aren't going to end up much lighter than grandpa's 300 WM with a scope on it.

First, most people using a 7 BC will want a suppressor which immediately adds 8-16 oz. The more weight/lenght saved on the barrel, the heavier/longer the suppressor can be.

Second, it is easy to add weight back into a system: heavier profile barrel, heavier stock/chassis, heavier scopes.

The key factors favoring a 7 BV are barrel length and suppressors.

I am leaving for a deer hunt tomorrow morning.
- My 223 Tikka is staying home because it is not suppressed.
- My rifle with a 24" barrel is staying home because a 31" (24" + 6.5" can ) barrel would be a handful in the portable ground blind I might use for parts of the hunt.

What benefit is 7 BC providing in a scenario where you are deciding between a 223 and the 7 BC? Seems to be two opposite ends of the spectrum here.

The advantage of a short barreled 7 PRC vs 7 BC is just ballistics masturbation at this point and only you can decide if it's worth it in your case (ha). I like shooting stuff because it's interesting even though a 7-08 would do everything I've ever needed.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

I'm confused by Federal honestly. If the premise is a short suppressed rifle, why not start with a short action to shave some overall length?

I'd be interested in a 7-08 touching the heels of a magnum.

 

[bnewt3]

I'm confused by Federal honestly. If the premise is a short suppressed rifle, why not start with a short action to shave some overall length?

I'd be interested in a 7-08 touching the heels of a magnum.

I think they said its was to reduce case diameter to fit another rd in a mag.