What has being nice really done for us?

[Coveyleader]

Anyone that’s been around the hunting, trapping, fishing community, has heard it’s better to stay low key, keep our image out of sight out of mind. After seeing all these crazy ballot initiatives continued attacks on hunting and fishing etc. what has it really done for us? If you take a look around today, these loud, small voices are crushing us in terms of wins vs losses. So do we keep standing in the dark and take it? Do as we please as it’s all going away sooner or later? I’m really struggling with this as of late. We’ve all heard it…. “When I retire, my kids graduate bla bla bla I’m moving to X state” Are we simply on borrowed time, the way of the world is bigger than we ever will be?

I almost feel we need to be loud, say hunting, the hunter gather is in my blood, I was born with it, take the route of those that prefer same gender. Look what it’s gotten them vs those quiet bible fearing normal people ?

 

[Lou (Louis)]

Where (please)?

 

[rifletuner]

About time we had some rioting and looting in support of hunting.

 

[CorbLand]

I think it’s less that we weren’t loud, we just haven’t been loud in the places we need to be.

People will spend 10 to 15 bucks a shell to shoot a stupid bird but half of them couldn’t be bothered to send money to a hunting organization.

Then the majority of the organizations that we do have, are 501c3 and can’t lobby.

We have to get loud where we are being attacked and that’s in the halls of your government offices. Show up and/or give your money to organizations that actually do things. Pay attention to what those organizations are actually doing because half the ones we give money to aren’t capable of doing the things that need to be done.

 

[average]

Anyone that’s been around the hunting, trapping, fishing community, has heard it’s better to stay low key, keep our image out of sight out of mind. After seeing all these crazy ballot initiatives continued attacks on hunting and fishing etc. what has it really done for us? If you take a look around today, these loud, small voices are crushing us in terms of wins vs losses. So do we keep standing in the dark and take it? Do as we please as it’s all going away sooner or later? I’m really struggling with this as of late. We’ve all heard it…. “When I retire, my kids graduate bla bla bla I’m moving to X state” Are we simply on borrowed time, the way of the world is bigger than we ever will be?

I almost feel we need to be loud, say hunting, the hunter gather is in my blood, I was born with it, take the route of those that prefer same gender. Look what it’s gotten them vs those quiet bible fearing normal people ?

Maybe invite some of those people hunting or fishing. Many of "them" think hunters and hunting are awful things because it's beamed into their brain by tv and social media. It's really no different than you having a warped perception of them.

 

[gwtravis]

 

[DawnPatrol]

I think it’s less that we weren’t loud, we just haven’t been loud in the places we need to be.

People will spend 10 to 15 bucks a shell to shoot a stupid bird but half of them couldn’t be bothered to send money to a hunting organization.

Then the majority of the organizations that we do have, are 501c3 and can’t lobby.

We have to get loud where we are being attacked and that’s in the halls of your government offices. Show up and/or give your money to organizations that actually do things. Pay attention to what those organizations are actually doing because half the ones we give money to aren’t capable of doing the things that need to be done.

We are living in a democracy (for now), and so this is what is required to maintain rights that we value when there are significant numbers of (severely misguided) people in certain jurisdictions who oppose those rights. Frustrating, but better than the alternative.

A minor but important correction to the post above is that 501c3s absolutely can engage in lobbying (it just can’t be all they do, and they cant do election work). In my opinion (as a lawyer for a 501c3 conservation organization), any conservation or hunting nonprofit that is not doing at least some lobbying is leaving money on the table when it comes maximizing protections for habitat and people’s ability to fish and hunt there.

 

[B Harrison]

Yeah, walk softly and keep your stick down.
I don’t live in an area where “my” hunting has been threatened, but know some people do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SleepyJones]

I work on a frac crew so people bitching to me about hunting is just another thing to shrug off. I can't help but stir the pot though and let people know that the best thing to pump down the well are kitties and puppies, just grind em up and pump em... you have to grind em up alive though, formation seems to treat better this way.

 

[Mtndawger]

My perspective is that we are in a position where the hunting/fishing community needs to adapt. I don’t think we have been too nice so much as we have just minded our own business. That is changing though and we have organizations such as CRWM in Colorado doing some real heavy lifting on legislation and lobbying. It’s important to remember that traditional orgs like rmef and the like were set up as conservation orgs and not for legislating /lobbying. They are not bad guys in this as such. They still need our money and that money is a huge part of our message, which is that we as hunters are a huge reason why wildlife in America is so abundant. Take away that funding mechanism and you can bet that the rest of America isn’t going to want to pay that “tax” too. Increasingly they are earmarking funds for legislation with raffle raised monies etc going towards our cause. So let’s get more vocal but being mean about it is t the way to win over the rest of the people who actually do support us.

 

[CorbLand]

We are living in a democracy (for now), and so this is what is required to maintain rights that we value when there are significant numbers of (severely misguided) people in certain jurisdictions who oppose those rights. Frustrating, but better than the alternative.

A minor but important correction to the post above is that 501c3s absolutely can engage in lobbying (it just can’t be all they do, and they cant do election work). In my opinion (as a lawyer for a 501c3 conservation organization), any conservation or hunting nonprofit that is not doing at least some lobbying is leaving money on the table when it comes maximizing protections for habitat and people’s ability to fish and hunt there.

If I remember correctly, lobbying can only be up to ~5%. When you have organizations doing it 100% of the time and that’s where we are losing, 5% is nothing. Then add in that that 5% is as a whole so c3s can eat that 5% up lobbying for their organization goals and not have any time left for other things.

I am not saying don’t donate to c3s, just that one can’t just donate there and say “well, did my part for hunting.”

 

[WoodlandCritter]

I don't think being loud is the opposite of being nice. You can have both.

 

[Beendare]

I think the world takes a wrong turn when we cannot discuss issues in a calm common sense manner. Let the other side act like A holes.

The problem with hunting and hunters rights is two pronged. Hunters Don't get involved...and hunters don't contribute $$$ to the cause at the same rate the antis contribute against us. The avg hunter doesn't contribute squat.....not even a lousy $100 a year to a hunting rights org.

 

[omicron1792]

I think we eat our own too much. Argue over the incremental small things vigorously while staying quiet on the big issues. It’s human nature. But if we want our kids and grandkids to enjoy hunting like we have we better stop fighting each other and unite.

 

[Jimmy]

Being nice means I sleep well at night.

 

[Coveyleader]

I guess where I'm going with this is, we are on borrowed time, and being nice, out of sight out of mind hasn't really done anything for us. I have a few bear baits in several states. When I sit where I sit, a long ways from anything, not a soul around, passing the spring time doing something I truly love. I think to myself, what am I doing that really drives people off the ledge? They don't know I'm here, have no clue what I'm doing? How is this affecting their daily lives so much that ballot initiatives are put in place, ban this, ban that. I for one am done with trying to be discreet in the woods where there is possible overlap with non-hunters. Done.

 

[DawnPatrol]

If I remember correctly, lobbying can only be up to ~5%. When you have organizations doing it 100% of the time and that’s where we are losing, 5% is nothing. Then add in that that 5% is as a whole so c3s can eat that 5% up lobbying for their organization goals and not have any time left for other things.

I am not saying don’t donate to c3s, just that one can’t just donate there and say “well, did my part for hunting.”

It’s actually more than that, and there’s a lot of good “loud” work that can be done to influence public policy that isn’t strictly lobbying.

But your last point is spot on. Dont just donate; donate and stay engaged. If the org you are donating to is good at what it does, it’ll reach out to you when there are important opportunities to call your elected officials, submit comments, go to hearings, etc.

 

[MuleyFever]

I guess where I'm going with this is, we are on borrowed time, and being nice, out of sight out of mind hasn't really done anything for us. I have a few bear baits in several states. When I sit where I sit, a long ways from anything, not a soul around, passing the spring time doing something I truly love. I think to myself, what am I doing that really drives people off the ledge? They don't know I'm here, have no clue what I'm doing? How is this affecting their daily lives so much that ballot initiatives are put in place, ban this, ban that. I for one am done with trying to be discreet in the woods where there is possible overlap with non-hunters. Done.

You are talking about 2 different groups. The person that is driven off the ledge even though they don't actually know you are out there is an anti-hunter. That's not the non-hunter you may overlap with on the trail, or wherever. The average non-hunter doesn't care about hunting because they don't think about hunting. Its just something other people do. Maybe they have/had a friend, neighbor or family member hunts so they think its fine. That person hunted and they were a good person. The non-hunter is perfectly content buying there meat and not ever thinking about how the animal had to die. Meat just comes from the store. They don't want to see it but they don't really care if others do it because again, they just dont really think about killing animals, what hunting actually is. Now while they are out doing their thing they run into a hunter that is just done. This guy has a dead animal on open display and is tired of being nice. Well now this non-hunter has to face what hunting is and maybe they don't like it, at least not the way this person is presenting it anyway. Untimely that's their problem, I get it. However, eventually they see something encouraging them to vote against hunting. Now they have a vision of a poorly displayed dead animal from some hunter that is tired of being nice. How do they vote? Maybe they decide they are done being nice too. Congratulations, you just converted a non-hunter to an anti-hunter.

Like Corb said, we need to be loud in the right places and that is not on the trail or the roads with dead animals in tow.

 

[BigredRusch]

I’m really happy to see this discussion in this community!

I think the OP is correct, there has been way too much in fighting and also community backslapping and high-fiving historically. The 501(c)(3) organizations that preach conservation that we all know about are primarily internal profit based groups.

In order for hunting fishing and trapping to hold, or gain ground, we will need to change our strategy and engage in legal and political lobbying. That is where we will maintain, gain, or lose our rights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk