What Did This Bull Say?

[ElkNut1]

In light of the Diaphragm Thread it seems like thoughts pop up regularly about being a good caller. Then comments are shared about elk themselves at times not being the best callers. What most don't appreciate is that when an elk bugles or cow calls a message is being sent! It may not be the classic TV Bugle or Cow Sound we are used to hearing but they are in fact communicating to their ranks in most cases! It's up to us as hunters to understand their language. In doing this it will help us to become much better hunters as we accept the challenge in hunting them on their turf!

Listen to this Elk Sound, if you had bugled & heard this response 400 yards away above or below you in thick timber, what is your next move? Did you understand what this elk was saying? If not chances are you will lose this encounter! This is a common sound heard every year by hunters & most blow it because they treat it like any other bugle! What would you do once you heard it?
https://soundcloud.com/elknut1/unusual-bull-bugle/s-Z9EM2


ElkNut1

 

[Jon Boy]

Sounds like an aggressive lip ball bugle. Kind of hard to here how he ended it though.

 

[5MilesBack]

My wife would say that I misinterpret communication all the time, so take this for what it's worth. But I believe that bull just told me that he's the biggest dick on the mountain, and what am I going to do about it.

Sounds pretty much like what I heard in 2012 from a bull before we went round and round for a bit. He's on my wall now.

 

[Jethro]

He's got cows and is screaming at his cows. I think. Would move in silently.

 

[elkyinzer]

He's got cows and he's telling them to get over here now, and sounds pretty urgent about it. I would silently try to gain ground if the wind is ok, but they very well may be a herd on the move.

 

[Bubblehide]

He is gathering his cows to keep his distance, possibly move them out. You should move in on him as fast as you can as to not afford him the opportunity to escape. Sit there and continue calling, and he will be gone gone gone.

 

[airlocksniffer]

Cool idea Paul. I avoided the other responses so I wouldn't be biased. In my limited experience, he sounds like he's telling me to back the f* up. I'd move quickly within 100 yards or so and try to turn up heat on him with an aggressive bugle of my own but still a little less than him.

 

[GotDraw?]

Agree with Jethro, Elkinizer, Bubblehide...

Bull calling cows. And he is ready to start moving NOW, and/or pissed that a cow or two is not listening. If the wind is right and you can get in front of where you think they're headed, go for it. Low odds on that one though.

But... Little time to react.

Plan B

Move fast, get as close as possible (wind/terrain/cover dependent) get right to the edge of the herd if possible. Toss a cow being harassed call, then smaller bull calling cows call. Caller pulls back, tosses another cow call, then bull calling cows calls. Caller stays close enough to the herd that the bull won't leave his cows that he thinks the other bull has.

Do not talk directly to the bull/challenge him directly, he will split. Talk only to his cows until the bull finally gets pissed enough to investigate.

That's my strategy.

 

[TxTrapper]

"Bull calling cows. And he is ready to start moving NOW, and/or pissed that a cow or two is not listening."

I'm with this view........

 

[Bubblehide]

I'll elaborate on my first answer. Proximity to an animal when calling is almost always everything. What I mean is that an animal is not going to expend unnecessary energy to keep what is already his. If your not close enough to be an immediate threat, he will gather what is his and move them away; thus keeping his cows with no risk of losing them; no unnecessary expenditure of energy. It's the smart and easy thing to do, that has little to no risk involved. Granted, you may get a different response from an immature animal, but the mature animal is seasoned and simply knows better.

I agree with GotDraw?, concentrating on the cows will hold his attention, and if he thinks your an immediate threat, he will react swiftly, either moving out, risking a loss; but more likely come in for the fight, to protect his cows. If he doesn't come in, or leave quickly, it's because he was unable to move his cows out quickly. If your still in proximity of being considered an immediate threat, give it a few minutes, he'll come in.

This is a typical calling scenario, whether it be elk, deer or for the most part anything else in breeding season. Unless your right up on the animals, i.e., females, the male will move his girls away, often times never making a sound; or never loud enough for you to hear.

 

[ElkNut1]

Great stuff guys!!! Jon, yes sir it's a lip bawl bugle! Very good evaluation by many here! Bubblehide was the 1st to really nail what to do or how to react & the importance of acting quickly. Very nice Bubblehide!

When hearing a sound as a Lip Bawl Bugle in response to our bugle we need to note the bull is responding to his cows & not to us! He's responding because of us! He's doing his best to gather his cows together for possible escape to avoid a confrontation. Note too, if he has 1-2 cows they can gather together quickly & off they may go. If he has many cows he may give the Lip Bawl several times inside 60 seconds noting urgency or a hurry up & gather the ladies!

As hunters we need to act quickly if there is a distance between us & them. As Bubblehide mentions our time is short & we have to get close to either call his cows from him with Advertising bugles or a direct challenge, of course a whiny cow call once in close & the bull responds for her to gather to him & we throw a challenge over it, well let's say things can happen fast!

All in all knowing what you hear & reacting quickly can give us great odds of a close encounter. This is what I call "Reading a Situation & Reacting"-- Thanks! I'll share some more sounds soon!

ElkNut1

 

[TxTrapper]

Great idea Paul, thanks for all the info.

 

[Bubblehide]

Thanks Paul!

 

[ReddingArcher]

This is great stuff! Looking forward to more sounds and learning what they mean and how to react.

 

[Jon Boy]

Paul, what clues you into a bull calling cows lip ball bugle, versus an aggressive intimidating lip ball bugle in response to another bull?

 

[Bubblehide]

It's like our language, intonation often tells us more than the word itself.

 

[5MilesBack]

There aren't many situations (should say "any") where I hear any sound out of a bull and I'm not already closing the distance quickly. That's why I'm out there.

 

[tttoadman]

We had this going on in 2011 and 2012. I witnessed him doing this and I new his escape route. Note that this is rifle season. We had never heard any bull as vocal as this guy, but had not gotten into too many herds of this size. I ran to cut them off and failed in 2011. My brother picked a 5x6 out of the herd in 2012, and I new where he was going to push the rest of the herd to get out. I was able to cut him and his herd in half. He was really pissed then. I should add that this was one of my early experiences with this and the smarter of the 2 prevailed and it wasn't me. I pushed cow calls the whole time while moving in. It was strange in the chaos because elk could see me but didn't really react to me because he was sitting in the middle screaming at them. The herd was about 50, so the chaos lasted awhile. We hope to draw that tag this year and try again. I am certain he has taught the younger bulls how to survive in that area, and I now know their secret.

Paul,
This is an awesome idea you had.

 

[Tdiesel]

There aren't many situations (should say "any") where I hear any sound out of a bull and I'm not already closing the distance quickly. That's why I'm out there.

x2 I don't care what sound it is he tells you he is right there. If I want to shoot him I need to be there as well.

 

[ElkNut1]

Jon Boy, good question! Bulls of all ages & sizes can give lip bawls or warning challenges. Just want all to know that these are not herd bull sounds only! When a bull is warning or challenging another bull or bulls his intensity is magnified & is more likely to use guttural growling with or without a lip bawl tone, these growls are as deep sounding as a bears growl. He will generally include other sounds as grunts & pants showing intimidation. It's very common for a warning or challenge bugle to begin with one or two hard hitting grunts then his coarse bugle will follow. So listening for additional sounds is important here! ---- Think of it similar to two dogs facing off 5' away & growling with hair standing on their backs, there's no doubt they are warning one another to back off or else! A warning bugle is very similar! I will share that sound as well so you can hear it from real bulls! Just need to get it downloaded! (grin) Nothing like hearing the real sounds from bulls themselves!

5-mile & Tdiesel, I agree in many instances it's best to get on a bugling bull as quickly as possible. Issue is the terrain does not always allow such action! A lot of elk country is riddled with under brush & downfall & getting to a 125 yards or so can be very difficult to coyote in so you need to consider your alternatives as to what's needed for a specific encounter! There will be times when you have bulls sounding off with Location Bugles & others using Advertising Bugles, these Bugles do not require the quickest action around as these bulls are either where they want to be or are moving very slow so a different mindset should be considered there! Both these bulls are looking for other elk especially cows! The Advertising Bull is sounding off in an effort to draw cows to his location so he will hold tight to that spot as he awaits any incoming ones in the area. This bull for best odds & results does not require the same method as the bull giving the Lip Bawl bugle! Reading The Situation is huge in elk hunting! You shouldn't be challenging every bull no more than you cow call every bull. Determine their message being sent & act accordingly! Thanks!

ElkNut1