What constitutes a good training program?

[Cameron945]

Just curious as to what everybody's thoughts were. I remember going on my first sheep hunt (Aoudad) with my good friend and our fitness differences shined at different points during the hunt. He had me winded and gasping for air all over the hot desert mountains while we chased sheep. I excelled during the heavy packout and could go several miles without stopping, but the heavy load crushed him on the way out. You wouldn't think there were big differences in our fitness by looking at us.
I wrote down a "Needs Analysis" based on our individual strengths/weakness as well as a "Needs Analysis" for our activity and programmed our training from there. Are you participating in programs that account for individualized needs as well as needs for the activity? Are your programs graded to account for initial fitness differences? Do they progress in a logical fashion to prepare for hunts? Just curious as to what everybody does for hunting. I know there are programs out there, but don't really know what they do, or how they work.

 

[mtwarden]

Obviously your fitness strengths differed, be curious if it was differences in your training, differences in your genetic makeup (or both). Be curious to hear your thoughts on why the difference?

In my mind a good training program (for hunting) would be one that allows both the ability to move through the mountains without undue trouble to increase your chances of a harvest AND the ability to get said harvest back to the truck without a lot of trouble, all the while remaining injury free (an easy one to ignore, until it happens).

I think that's likely going to involve a combination of some serious aerobic training (preferably in the mountains if that's where you hunt) and some strength training to help with packing out. Balancing those two aspects is where the fine tuning comes in.

Hiking in the mountains with a weighted pack obviously gets at both simultaneously

 

[Mike 338]

Craft beer after the workout.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

For me, it’s a year round GPP program (don’t ever get “out of shape” followed with a few months of hiking with a weighted pack and boots.

I suppose they type of GPP one does year round will have a big influence on performance, a guy who primarily runs all year will perform differently than a guy who does kettlebell and power lifts all year.

I really think that at some point you have to look at what you are naturally inclined to do the best and make the most of it while addressing shortcomings.

For example, at 6’4 and 210lbs I’m never going to be the runner my buddy who is 5’3 120lbs is, but he’s never going to squat or deadlift like I do nor is he going to be as solid with an 89-90lb pack on.

Should I do some running??? Sure, and I do as basic GPP but I’m never going to be a “runner” should my buddy do some squats and deadlifts??? Absolutely but he’s never going to be a strength athlete.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with focusing on your strengths while working on sport specific training (hiking with a pack).

 

[JBrew]

IMO, you need to work on your weakness, but not forget about your strengths. It's the things you don't want to do, but make yourself do, that make the difference. Balance.

 

[fatlander]

You need to run more while still maintaining your current strength training regimen. He needs to carry heavy shit more while still maintaining his cardio current cardio regimen.

You answered your own question with the details you gave us. Don’t over think it. Just do it.


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[Bulldawg]

Majority of everybody that is training, especially those who are training for mountain hunting, don’t know a thing about what they are doing and are basing they’re entire training methods off bro science and unaccredited sources.

Hiking with a pack on every day is not the best way to get in shape for hunting with a pack on. Running miles and miles is an awful way to get into shape. “Cardio” is what a lot of people spout off but will have minimal effect on your hunt.

Find a reputable credible source, and shut up, listen, and learn. Btw, if someone’s giving a “program” or a mountain workout away for free, it’s probably worth that much.


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[mtwarden]

Majority of everybody that is training, especially those who are training for mountain hunting, don’t know a thing about what they are doing and are basing they’re entire training methods off bro science and unaccredited sources.

Hiking with a pack on every day is not the best way to get in shape for hunting with a pack on. Running miles and miles is an awful way to get into shape. “Cardio” is what a lot of people spout off but will have minimal effect on your hunt.

Find a reputable credible source, and shut up, listen, and learn. Btw, if someone’s giving a “program” or a mountain workout away for free, it’s probably worth that much.


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we’re all ears or do we have to pay first?

 

[Coach Chris]

A good training program?
My professional opinion is a program that addresses
Specific Physical Preparation first and foremost. For hunting that's rucking and hiking. At least here in the Rocky Mountain west it is.
General Physical Preparation secondarily. GPP for hunters is absolute strength and endurance strength.

You don't want to push the SPP to point of detriment to at least maintaining GPP.

You don't want anything in the program that doesn't directly address a demand of the primary activity. Hunting is not the Crossfit games, it's not a marathon or ultra marathon race, it's not a sprint and there's little to no lactate threshold demands aka HIIT.

Anything beyond the basic demands of the activity is fluff and will infringe on recovery from the primary training modalities.

Last but not least you want a program that is tailored to the individual "athletes" needs.

 

[Poser]

I’ve settled into this philosophy and template for the last 3 seasons. I also am an avid snowboarder with a long season (5-6 months) as well as an avid Mtn biker with a relatively short season (3-4 months)

Strength is primary. It takes the longest to develop but has the longest training effect.
I stay on a Heavy-Light-Medium template during the athletic seasons and run Linear Progression for 4-6 weeks between each season 3x a year. Doing that, I go into each season very strong and then have a slow decline in strength over the course of the season.

During Mtn Bike season, I generally train 3 days a week on a bike with a couple of long weekend trips and usually a 5 day trip or 2.

Snowboarding goes much the same though I’m more fluid in my schedule to account for powder days. I get in shape for skinning and bootpacking by doing lots of both. Weekday resort riding, I do as many hot laps as I can to build endurance for big mountain riding.

Leading up to hunting season, I go scouting for a few weekends. This is the simplest process by far.

In short, I build strength with the Backsquat, Press, Bench Press and Deadlift. I add in a couple of accessory movements seasonally: Power Clean and Power Snatch (more for snowboarding and Mtn biking), and chin ups. Very Occasionally I’ll add in front squats. No isolation movements. No gym conditioning. No fluff. I just try to build and maintain a strong body and get in shape for each sport and improve my skills at each by practicing them.

I’m 6’1, generally walking around at 200-210#, but will usually drop to 190-195# during peak Mtn biking. That’s heavy for Mtn biking. I’m carrying a lot of non biking specific muscle around and my climbing (of which I do a shit ton in SW CO) tends to be on the slower side as a result, but sense I don’t race, I see no need to sacrifice any more strength than I have to. Fast uphill Strava times aren’t worth sacrificing strong spinal erectors which I need at other times of the year, but I usually have 30-50 pounds of Bodyweight on people who I bike with.

 

[Bulldawg]

1. I am neither certified as or claim to be a professional/expert though I have studied

2. I’m not going to write out a program or share the program I utilize because that would take for ever, but in general everybody that is training regardless of their goal, should utilize a periodization model, training for hypertrophy, strength, speed. In that order in blocks. Doing a little bit of pack training to get used to the pack, but don’t over do it.

we’re all ears or do we have to pay first?

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[thinhorn_AK]

You need to run more while still maintaining your current strength training regimen. He needs to carry heavy shit more while still maintaining his cardio current cardio regimen.

You answered your own question with the details you gave us. Don’t over think it. Just do it.


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Why do you need to run??? I think its entirely possible to be successful without doing a single bit of running, there are plenty of other ways to get good cardio in.

I really believe that there is absolutely no reason anybody should feel compelled to "run" unless"

1. you enjoy it and want to do it
2. you are trying to improve your running performance
3. you are required to for a job (law enforcement, fire, military)

if you don't enjoy it or are injury prone there are better options.

The biggest issue with running (other than the 100% chance of injury at some point) is that the majority of people run in the gray area of performance, they don't track what they are doing so they go run for 5 miles or an hour or whatever and say "oh that was an awesome workout"......when in fact they weren't really pushing hard enough to make real adaptations and they weren't really going easy or short enough to get any recovery benefit out of it.

Junk miles aren't very useful and Id imagine that 90% of the miles that 90% of people run are just that, junk miles.

 

[Coach Chris]

Why do you need to run??? I think its entirely possible to be successful without doing a single bit of running, there are plenty of other ways to get good cardio in.

This is completely true.
"Cardio" is a marketing term.
What you're trying to build is endurance.
Endurance happens first in the muskuloskeletal system and the cardiovascular system responds to the needs of the working muscles.
Building endurance on a physiological level is a matter of increasing capillary density in the muscles.
Neuromuscular motor patterns are ABSOLUTELY SPECIFIC to activity.
Running will build capillary density in the targeted muscles. Unless you're taking up persistent hunting like the Kalahari Bushmen it's not ideal.
Specificity is king. Unless you're one of the fortunate who have no responsibilities with all the time in the world to train, eat and sleep specificity matters.
If you're training for hunting I'm going to surmise that you're hunting on foot with most everything you need on your back.
In this case the training modality that is specifically addressing your needs is rucking not running.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

This is completely true.
"Cardio" is a marketing term.
What you're trying to build is endurance.
Endurance happens first in the muskuloskeletal system and the cardiovascular system responds to the needs of the working muscles.
Building endurance on a physiological level is a matter of increasing capillary density in the muscles.
Neuromuscular motor patterns are ABSOLUTELY SPECIFIC to activity.
Running will build capillary density in the targeted muscles. Unless you're taking up persistent hunting like the Kalahari Bushmen it's not ideal.
Specificity is king. Unless you're one of the fortunate who have no responsibilities with all the time in the world to train, eat and sleep specificity matters.
If you're training for hunting I'm going to surmise that you're hunting on foot with most everything you need on your back.
In this case the training modality that is specifically addressing your needs is rucking not running.

Back when I was competing at a high level in cycling I’d have these guys ask me “I’m biking 4 days a week, should I add a few gym sessions on my off days???”......why not add some more riding on your off days if you’re pressed for time and can only work out once per day.

 

[Coach Chris]

Back when I was competing at a high level in cycling I’d have these guys ask me “I’m biking 4 days a week, should I add a few gym sessions on my off days???”......why not add some more riding on your off days if you’re pressed for time and can only work out once per day.

Everything you do is based on a percentage of your absolute strength. The stronger you are the easier everything else is.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Everything you do is based on a percentage of your absolute strength. The stronger you are the easier everything else is.

For sure but if you’re only training a few days a week, then doing more sport specific practice will be more useful.

I mean if im running 3x a week and want to get better at running, bumping it up to 5-6x a week will be more useful towards the goal than lifting a few days a week. If you can run 6x a week AND lift, Great, otherwise running will help meet the goal better.

 

[Coach Chris]

For sure but if you’re only training a few days a week, then doing more sport specific practice will be more useful.

I mean if im running 3x a week and want to get better at running, bumping it up to 5-6x a week will be more useful towards the goal than lifting a few days a week. If you can run 6x a week AND lift, Great, otherwise running will help meet the goal better.

More is not better
Better is better
More will not set you up for a chronic use injury but it will also lead you to a point of diminishing returns.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

More is not better
Better is better
More will not set you up for a chronic use injury but it will also lead you to a point of diminishing returns.

I’ve been saying all along that junk miles are useless but I guess you want to argue rather than have an actual conversation so I’ll just leave you to it. Good luck with your coaching.

 

[Coach Chris]

I’ve been saying all along that junk miles are useless but I guess you want to argue rather than have an actual conversation so I’ll just leave you to it. Good luck with your coaching.

I'm not arguing.
Strength training is an indispensable part of programming. If I had two days a week to train I would choose to strength train, keep my diet super tight and walk everywhere I could.
I may not be in perfect shape for the milage. I will be strong enough to handle the loads and far more injury resistant than I would be if I just focused on endurance.

Even if you're a runner you're not using your energy and time to it's fullest by running in a hunting training program. Hunting is rucking.

 

[joshn]

Even if you're a runner you're not using your energy and time to it's fullest by running in a hunting training program. Hunting is rucking.

Does this hold true for us flatlanders? I'm training at about sea level with the 22's program, but have signed up for a half marathon in October with the thought that distance training can help make up for lack of altitude training.