What bag for cold, cold temps?

[Desk Jockey]

I don’t have a lot of experience below a certain level of cold. Circling the idea of a winter snow camping trip to canada next year. Not clear yet if we will have hot tents or not. temps can go to 10* to neg 20* in the area?

do I just get the biggest, baddest western mountaineering bag and pair it with a super warm pad?

 

[StopMakingSense]

Coast or interior?

 

[rclouse79]

I spent the night in an insulated pop up while ice fishing a handful of times last year. I did fine with clothes, a zero degree bag, and a foam pad on my cot, but I always had the option of turning the big buddy on if I got cold. I don’t like sleeping with it on like a lot of guys do, but access to a heat source gives you peace of mind.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Grab:
1) High R-value pad (ex: X-Therm)
2) EN comfort rated bag that meets your requirements (love my WM bags)

Note: if this is a one-off trip, grab a bag that meets most of your regular needs and then look at supplementing its warmth. There are previous threads specifically talking about making your bag warmer.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Coast or interior?

Interior.

 

[SLDMTN]

We’ve used Marmot CWM bags for quite some time now. I know there’s a few others that make a similar bag such as Western Mountaineering.

If you’re moving each night you’ll fight insulation compression. Happens down and synthetic from what I’ve seen. Moisture from your body/clothes pushes into the insulation and never gets warm enough to evaporate beyond the bags outer layer. When the bag is stuffed into a stuff sack, the still moist insulation compresses and freezes. This diminishes the bags insulatory properties substantially. You’ll see folks leave their bags unpacked and strapped to their backs while moving through the day. This helps but isn’t curing the root of the problem.

Using a VBL is really the only guaranteed solution to keep your moisture away from the insulation. Those are not fun, at all. Plan on swapping sleep clothes each day if possible.

As stated above buy the best R Value pad that’ll elevate ALL areas of your body. Anything touching the ground will get cold. For extreme temps consider a thin closed cell pad for below your sleeping pad.

I’d also recommend buying sleeping booties and a sleeping hat. I bought over stuffed models from Enlightened Equipment.

 

[*zap*]

If your not packing I would get a synthetic bag. Wiggly makes some very warm bags. Ultima Thule and antarctic.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

We’ve used Marmot CWM bags for quite some time now. I know there’s a few others that make a similar bag such as Western Mountaineering.

If you’re moving each night you’ll fight insulation compression. Happens down and synthetic from what I’ve seen. Moisture from your body/clothes pushes into the insulation and never gets warm enough to evaporate beyond the bags outer layer. When the bag is stuffed into a stuff sack, the still moist insulation compresses and freezes. This diminishes the bags insulatory properties substantially. You’ll see folks leave their bags unpacked and strapped to their backs while moving through the day. This helps but isn’t curing the root of the problem.

Using a VBL is really the only guaranteed solution to keep your moisture away from the insulation. Those are not fun, at all. Plan on swapping sleep clothes each day if possible.

As stated above buy the best R Value pad that’ll elevate ALL areas of your body. Anything touching the ground will get cold. For extreme temps consider a thin closed cell pad for below your sleeping pad.

I’d also recommend buying sleeping booties and a sleeping hat. I bought over stuffed models from Enlightened Equipment.

Like SLDMTN says, a vapor barrier is the ultimate answer to keep the perspiration away from building up on your bag.

There are a couple other factors to consider as well though. Many Extreme Cold weather bags have a nearly waterproof outer fabric. This will only exacerbate the perspiration problem by not allowing the moisture to escape as easily. A Western Mountaineering bag with the Microfiber shell will breath better than a Gore Windstopper outer.

One solution that greatly mitigates the moisture build up in the insulation is to change where the dewpoint is on the sleep system.

You do this by layering a synthetic overbag over the top of your main bag. The temperature differential this creates will push the moisture away from the down bag and through the synthetic over bag, where it then condenses on the outside of the synthetic bag. This is very effective in keeping your primary bag dry.

You could do this for example with an Enlightened Equipment Enigma Apex 50f quilt or a Nunatak Gear Graupel 50f Apex bag. It is important to size the overbag large enough to not compress the primary bag.


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[snowcamoman]

I'm running almost an identical setup as Sldmtn. A Marmot CWM has treated me well for over 20 years. I've slept in it down to -35F and was warm. A use VB socks in a bag just to minimize footbox moisture.

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[Dr.Chill]

I spent the night in an insulated pop up while ice fishing a handful of times last year. I did fine with clothes, a zero degree bag, and a foam pad on my cot, but I always had the option of turning the big buddy on if I got cold. I don’t like sleeping with it on like a lot of guys do, but access to a heat source gives you peace of mind.

I did the exact same last weekend, cots in an insulated Eskimo with a Buddy heater during waking hours. Used a Kodiak 0 WM bag with a Exped CC foam pad (R = 2.2). Was a little cold on the lower body but think that was because I stuffed my duffle under the part of the cot below my upper body, thereby creating some additional form of insulation. What foam pad did you use out of curiosity and what were your temps?

 

[rclouse79]

I did the exact same last weekend, cots in an insulated Eskimo with a Buddy heater during waking hours. Used a Kodiak 0 WM bag with a Exped CC foam pad (R = 2.2). Was a little cold on the lower body but think that was because I stuffed my duffle under the part of the cot below my upper body, thereby creating some additional form of insulation. What foam pad did you use out of curiosity and what were your temps?

I actually just used yoga pads. I bought some thicker foam camping pads this year I think will be better.

 

[rclouse79]

I did the exact same last weekend, cots in an insulated Eskimo with a Buddy heater during waking hours. Used a Kodiak 0 WM bag with a Exped CC foam pad (R = 2.2). Was a little cold on the lower body but think that was because I stuffed my duffle under the part of the cot below my upper body, thereby creating some additional form of insulation. What foam pad did you use out of curiosity and what were your temps?

Some nights were below 0.

 

[rclouse79]

I did the exact same last weekend, cots in an insulated Eskimo with a Buddy heater during waking hours. Used a Kodiak 0 WM bag with a Exped CC foam pad (R = 2.2). Was a little cold on the lower body but think that was because I stuffed my duffle under the part of the cot below my upper body, thereby creating some additional form of insulation. What foam pad did you use out of curiosity and what were your temps?

Do you lay down the interlocking 2x2 foam mats to make a floor? That is super nice. You can walk around in your socks while the big buddy is fired up.

 

[SLDMTN]

Having my foam pad under my inflatable would’ve been handy but I spaced bringing it. Through the night I lost a little bit of PSI and could feel the cold through the pad when I laid on my side. I wore Enlightened Equipment Apex Booties and will definitely be doing that in the future. My feet tend to slide off the end of my pad when I’m sleeping and I get cold feet. That was not an issue at all on this trip looking for wolves with temps below zero.

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[*zap*]

^nice.

 

[Dr.Chill]

Do you lay down the interlocking 2x2 foam mats to make a floor? That is super nice. You can walk around in your socks while the big buddy is fired up.

Do you lay down the interlocking 2x2 foam mats to make a floor? That is super nice. You can walk around in your socks while the big buddy is fired up.

I did not, but that would have been clutch! The Buddy created a decent amount of melt water for about a 3 foot radius in front so maybe throwing mats down first and then the Buddy would've prevented this. Did use some Western Mountaineering down booties though in the bag and cots, which was super nice.

 

[rclouse79]

I did not, but that would have been clutch! The Buddy created a decent amount of melt water for about a 3 foot radius in front so maybe throwing mats down first and then the Buddy would've prevented this. Did use some Western Mountaineering down booties though in the bag and cots, which was super nice.

I have not experienced any meltwater with the mr buddy on top of the floor. I have thought about getting some down booties. When I do get cold, it always seems to be my feet that feel it first.

 

[Lawnboi]

For real cold and extended. I think a vapor barrier inside is beneficial.

A few days in way below freezing can end up leaving a lot of moisture in your bag and eventually rob you of some warmth.

 

[maiermx]

I don’t have a lot of experience below a certain level of cold. Circling the idea of a winter snow camping trip to canada next year. Not clear yet if we will have hot tents or not. temps can go to 10* to neg 20* in the area?































































do I just get the biggest, baddest western mountaineering bag and pair it with a super warm pad?















Get a bag rated for that temp and a bivy sack large enough to provide some extra room when you and the sleeping bag are in it. You will also need a inflatable ground pad rated for that temp. Put your ground pad inside the bivy. This ensures you never slide off of it. Wear boot liners when sleeping to keep your feet toasty.