What About Doe Harvest MDF Podcast

[robby denning]

Hey Roksliders

The Mule Deer Foundation hosted a podcast episode at Western Hunt Expo with biologists & hunters. This was the segment we did on Doe Harvest. It's a very dynamic issue and varies from area to area, so please listen to the entire segment (it's only 7 minutes) before commenting. It might be different than you think.

@Rambo MDF x BDF thanks for having us on!

 

[180ls1]

Interesting. Exposed some of my ignorance to the topic.

 

[NDHUNTER24]

Its interesting to hear the other side. Growing up primarily around whitetail hunting, doe hunting was pretty common. @robby denning is there a full video about your conversation with them?

 

[robby denning]

Its interesting to hear the other side. Growing up primarily around whitetail hunting, doe hunting was pretty common. @robby denning is there a full video about your conversation with them?

Hey, that 7 minutes is all they've released, but it was about an hour convo. I think they chopped it up becuase we covered many topics within deer. This clip was where we primarily just talked doe harvest.

thanks for the listen and for chiming in.

My WT friends seem to accept doe harvest as normal, my MD friends blow their tops (sometimes) lol.

 

[NDHUNTER24]

Well theres definitely a time and place thats for sure. Our deer herds (whitetails) took a big hit from EHD a few years ago. They numbers seem to be getting better finally. It seemed to help the mulies in the area some as well. But thats a different topic, sorry!

 

[Hunterscamera]

Super interesting. Definitely going to be reading up on this

 

[idelkslayer]

What I think I heard was that as herds approach carrying capacity having fewer does can improve health of the individuals in the herd which can result in greater fawn survival and 50% of those fawns are bucks so theoretically fewer does could mean more bucks? Or just healthier and bigger bucks? Did I misunderstand that or am I close?

 

[Macegl]

Coming from a livestock background and working in range management, some of the unchallenged untouchable deer management strategies just make me shake my head in frustration.

I realize there are differences, but in a lot of cases biology is biology. We don’t keep ancient cows, why? Because old cows have worn out teeth, calve later, raise lighter calves etc. With cows, a light calf you lose money, with deer a light fawn is a dead fawn.

Same goes for range management. I have an old cattleman friend/mentor who was always very conservative when it came to cow numbers. When he would see someone who was overstocked, whose range looked poor, whose cows were starting to look a little thin, he would say, “my dad always taught me, you can’t starve a profit out of a cow”.

 

[AHayes111]

Thanks for posting. I am going to assume that the Andy from CO was Andy Holland. Good to put a face on one of the most informative Biologists I have ever talked to.
I understand the need for doe harvest, but there needs to be some restrictions to insure that the harvest is evenly distributed. I will use my home of SE MT. MT FWP gives out up to 11,000 doe tags good for all of region seven. Region seven is a big place, and when deer numbers are good region seven can easily handle the harvest associated with 11,000 doe tags if the harvest is evenly distributed. Problem is the harvest is not evenly distributed. The harvest is skewed heavily to the accessible public land. When you give out doe tags by the truck load, vulnerable doe populations can be nearly wiped out and with the rose peddle effect, those populations just do not bounce back. Biologists can not expect hunters to deliver a harvest that is evenly distributed when there are no restrictions on where the doe tags are filled.

 

[AHayes111]

Hey, that 7 minutes is all they've released, but it was about an hour convo. I think they chopped it up becuase we covered many topics within deer. This clip was where we primarily just talked doe harvest.

thanks for the listen and for chiming in.

My WT friends seem to accept doe harvest as normal, my MD friends blow their tops (sometimes) lol.

I think the big difference in WT and MD is where they prefer to live. WT tend to live around highly productive agriculture along the river bottoms and mule deer tend to inhabit the less productive hills and mountains. I would also add in that there are more four legged predators per deer away from human activity. Because of this, there is more of a need to shoot WT does to keep the population in check.

 

[wytx]

Why feed the doe that are not productive, take them out of the population and help the others. Healthier population with more fawn recruitment.
Forage is going to be an issue this year without more moisture, would you rather see them starve to death or get taken by a hunter? Hard choice for sure.

 

[S.Clancy]

I think the big difference in WT and MD is where they prefer to live. WT tend to live around highly productive agriculture along the river bottoms and mule deer tend to inhabit the less productive hills and mountains. I would also add in that there are more four legged predators per deer away from human activity. Because of this, there is more of a need to shoot WT does to keep the population in check.

Also, generalist vs specialist from a habitat perspective. Whitetail can make a good living almost anywhere.

 

[robby denning]

Also, generalist vs specialist from a habitat perspective. Whitetail can make a good living almost anywhere.

like rats lol

 

[robby denning]

What I think I heard was that as herds approach carrying capacity having fewer does can improve health of the individuals in the herd which can result in greater fawn survival and 50% of those fawns are bucks so theoretically fewer does could mean more bucks? Or just healthier and bigger bucks? Did I misunderstand that or am I close?

nailed it!

 

[robby denning]

Coming from a livestock background and working in range management, some of the unchallenged untouchable deer management strategies just make me shake my head in frustration.

I realize there are differences, but in a lot of cases biology is biology. We don’t keep ancient cows, why? Because old cows have worn out teeth, calve later, raise lighter calves etc. With cows, a light calf you lose money, with deer a light fawn is a dead fawn.

Same goes for range management. I have an old cattleman friend/mentor who was always very conservative when it came to cow numbers. When he would see someone who was overstocked, whose range looked poor, whose cows were starting to look a little thin, he would say, “my dad always taught me, you can’t starve a profit out of a cow”.

my favorite post on Rokslide right now.

Thank you.

 

[S.Clancy]

like rats lol

I had a bio tell me once after the nukes fall, there will be rats, brown trout and whitetails left, hahaha

 

[Bull_n_heat]

I can hear it now .... "got me my Meat DOE this fall". And I support it 100%, where appropriate!

 

[Wapiti151]

Interesting topic, and couldn't agree more for the herds that need it. Some states are better than others out here in the West, but it's always made me curious why so many people are against doe harvest as a blanket approach that should be followed everywhere.

Additionally, states opening their mind to this concept would drastically reduce the amount of forkies and young bucks that are taken out of that herd as "meat bucks"...who are generally with the does still come rifle season. I'm all for guys who hunt solely for the freezer, but given the option of taking a 2pt or a doe for meat...i'd take the doe every single time.

 

[robby denning]

Interesting topic, and couldn't agree more for the herds that need it. Some states are better than others out here in the West, but it's always made me curious why so many people are against doe harvest as a blanket approach that should be followed everywhere.

Additionally, states opening their mind to this concept would drastically reduce the amount of forkies and young bucks that are taken out of that herd as "meat bucks"...who are generally with the does still come rifle season. I'm all for guys who hunt solely for the freezer, but given the option of taking a 2pt or a doe for meat...i'd take the doe every single time.

Right here^

If a state issues either–sex tags rather than just doe tags and a buck tag, this can save bucks!

Lots of people head out thinking they want a buck but after a few hours hunting, they see a nice fat doe they shoot it and they’re done for the season.

Obviously have to have the does to be able to do it, but that’s why I don’t like doe tags on top of buck tags cause then people shoot both.

Idaho has done this on and off over the years allowing youth to shoot either-sex, it’s great because they get some trigger time and save some bucks rather than driving the kid around for three weekends until he finally sees a Forky.

Just something to consider IMO