WEZ hit rates.

[Formidilosus]

They’re suggesting it to ME, who have used BOTH. I think I get to have a slight opinion about it in the field situations I used them in.

I’ve read through the thread again, and it’s for sure possible that I missed it- but who is suggesting that you use mils? Post 133 was the first time it was brought it, and it was a question with a laughing emoji. Then, post 142 started the nonsense that didn’t exist yet, and you jumped on it with post 143. That’s when Jordan made his comment. Then you came back with some nonsensicalness about Chris Kyle.

I promise I won’t take anyone’s MIL scopes from them .

Ok

I understand all the shit about proving mil is faster when you set up every scenario to prove it.

Yes, I’m sure that’s exactly it.

I’m not denying it. But it’s also not a big deal in the field from what I’ve seen.

My last belly shot on a bull
View attachment 961555

Almost all of your hunts with rifles that you have shared have been proned out, longer ranges- correct? That is the usual scenario for you that you have shared repeatedly, no?

 

[huntnful]

Almost all of your hunts that you have shared have been proned out, longer ranges- correct? That is the usual scenario for you that you have shared repeatedly, no?

Absolutely incorrect. I had a season where I killed everything seated under 200 yards. That was the joke about having a super magnum. So far this year was 4 prone, 2 standing, 1 seated.

I kill them how they present themselves and however the terrain allows. If I can shoot prone, I do. Why wouldn’t I?

I can promise I didn’t kill 20+ coyotes last winter from prone either.

And what does prone have to do with shooting MOA or MIL? Just something to bring up to try and make my field experiences seem inferior?

 

[huntnful]

I’ve read through the thread again, and it’s for sure possible that I missed it- but who is suggesting that you use mils? Post 133 was the first time it was brought it, and it was a question with a laughing emoji. Then, post 142 started the nonsense that didn’t exist yet, and you jumped on it with post 143. That’s when Jordan made his comment. Then you came back with some nonsensicalness about Chris Kyle.




Ok



Yes, I’m sure that’s exactly it.




Almost all of your hunts with rifles that you have shared have been proned out, longer ranges- correct? That is the usual scenario for you that you have shared repeatedly, no?

Yeah I know it’s nonsense about Chris Kyle. That’s the damn joke. I don’t even know the guy. It’s a sniper/tactical guys name that everyone knows so I used it to poke fun.

Someone hasn’t had their latte yet this morning hahaha.



I also saw your original reply said “nobody cares” about my joke about taking MIL scopes. Nobody should care. I don’t know why you would change that response. Weirdo .


No that is it. You can prove that MIL is faster. I don’t doubt you at all. And I can say “wow, yeah that is a little faster, but slight edge in speed doesn’t seem to matter much from that what I’ve experienced”. It’s okay to have an opinion that you’ve formed from personal experiences.

 

[Formidilosus]

And what does prone have to do with shooting MOA or MIL? Just something to bring up to try and make my field experiences seem inferior?

You’re the only one that has used fallacies to try to argue a point here.

I was trying to show you maybe the reason that you- like every other person I have met; believes that there isn’t a difference between MOA and mils is because they purposely set themselves up in situations that there is no observable difference. You have all these strawmen of what you think people do- or apparently what you think I do.
What you wrote and how you write it, is the same as people that I have shot and hunted with- I couldn’t count the number of them all over the country. Yet after actually shooting and hunting with them- somehow magically the issues that they claim never happen with MOA, or the non advantages in mils that they claim don’t exist or don’t matter- happen while I’m sitting there.

You seem to be so meticulous in some things, and yet almost willfully blind to others- in the exact same subject and I find that curious. Some of the things you write show some pretty large gaps there, but you outwardly resist any challange to the thought.
I don’t care that you shoot MOA- no one does. I shoot MOA too. The difference is that I don’t try to claim that there is no difference, and then make strawmen comments about it.

 

[huntnful]

EVERYONE.

If you would just not shoot a baby cartridge and 77 TMK with the BC of dogshit in flight, you wouldn’t have to memorize and incorporate your wind number to make a 100 yard shot. Solves a lot of problems.


THAT WAS A JOKE.

 

[Formidilosus]

EVERYONE.

If you would just not shoot a baby cartridge and 77 TMK with the BC of dogshit in flight, you wouldn’t have to memorize and incorporate your wind number to make a 100 yard shot. Solves a lot of problems.


THAT WAS A JOKE.

This is why you have gotten engaged on things. This isn’t Facebook or twitter, or in person- no one knows whether you are joking or being serious. People read what you write for information, take it on face value- and then wonder why they are getting such pushback or differences from others.

 

[Okie_Poke]

I was able be .11 more precise with my belly shot by shooting MOA. Literal game changer

What does that translate to for hit probability on your WEZ tool? Sounds like it might be unethical to hunt with mils.

Joking aside, I'm one of the idiots who can't remember their drop or drift from memory in MOA but can remember the adjustment for each rifle to the base MIL quick drop and what my wind number is. Not that it does me any good becasue I'm using a ballistic rangefinder or a printed drop chart to tell me anyway, and most of my limited shots aren't far enough to matter. And one of my two main hunting rifles still wears an MOA scope (still waiting on that Rokscope), but hey, base-10 is more intuitive.

You’re the only one that has used fallacies to try to argue a point here.

I was trying to show you maybe the reason that you- like every other person I have met; believes that there isn’t a difference between MOA and mils is because they purposely set themselves up in situations that there is no observable difference. You have all these strawmen of what you think people do- or apparently what you think I do.
What you wrote and how you write it, is the same as people that I have shot and hunted with- I couldn’t count the number of them all over the country. Yet after actually shooting and hunting with them- somehow magically the issues that they claim never happen with MOA, or the non advantages in mils that they claim don’t exist or don’t matter- happen while I’m sitting there.

You seem to be so meticulous in some things, and yet almost willfully blind to others- in the exact same subject and I find that curious. Some of the things you write show some pretty large gaps there, but you outwardly resist any challange to the thought.
I don’t care that you shoot MOA- no one does. I shoot MOA too. The difference is that I don’t try to claim that there is no difference, and then make strawmen comments about it.

Man, you read a lot more into his lighthearted banter than I did. Are you doing okay?

 

[huntnful]

You’re the only one that has used fallacies to try to argue a point here.

I was trying to show you maybe the reason that you- like every other person I have met; believes that there isn’t a difference between MOA and mils is because they purposely set themselves up in situations that there is no observable difference. You have all these strawmen of what you think people do- or apparently what you think I do.
What you wrote and how you write it, is the same as people that I have shot and hunted with- I couldn’t count the number of them all over the country. Yet after actually shooting and hunting with them- somehow magically the issues that they claim never happen with MOA, or the non advantages in mils that they claim don’t exist or don’t matter- happen while I’m sitting there.

You seem to be so meticulous in some things, and yet almost willfully blind to others- in the exact same subject and I find that curious. Some of the things you write show some pretty large gaps there, but you outwardly resist any challange to the thought.
I don’t care that you shoot MOA- no one does. I shoot MOA too. The difference is that I don’t try to claim that there is no difference, and then make strawmen comments about it.

Okay I actually get what you’re getting at. But you have to understand that I’ve very simple and joking half the time. I shot MILS for 3 seasons. However I hunted in those various hunts it didn’t seem to matter. Any moderate shot, I hold the windy edge of vitals and shoot. Any long shot I take the time to try and figure out the wind the best I can. It’s not fast at all. Dialing the turret is more simple. But quick drop did nothing for me.

So no I did not take advantage of the faster wind corrections with MIL with my hunting style.

 

[huntnful]

This is why you have gotten engaged on things. This isn’t Facebook or twitter, or in person- no one knows whether you are joking or being serious. People read what you write for information, take it on face value- and then wonder why they are getting such pushback or differences from others.

Okay understandable. But at this point people have to know that I joke a lot online AND YOU DON’T lol. They can probably catch the vibe. And if not, I’m happy to say I’m joking and continue to do it. That’s how I live my very happy life. Nothing I’m saying is detrimental to someone’s life. They didn’t need to shoot that deer at 500 yards in 7 seconds anyways. Leave some for the rest of us.

 

[Formidilosus]

Man, you read a lot more into his lighthearted banter than I did. Are you doing okay?

I’m completely fine. I didn’t read into anything. I was trying to show why Jordan said what he said. It’s a technical discussion in a technical forum- so unless someone makes it obvious that they are joking, I and others take it as they are not. And the rub comes from constantly having to restate and explain things when posters ask for information, and then they repeat the same incorrect tropes.

 

[Formidilosus]

Okay I actually get what you’re getting at. But you have to understand that I’ve very simple and joking half the time.

Appreciate the discussion today. I will say, I did not/have not read, most of your posts historically as light hearted. We all think people see this the way we see it- the internet to me is mostly just a data and information source- pure learning. So I tend to approach others as if what they wrote is from the same goal.

Apologies for digressing in your thread.

 

[huntnful]

What does that translate to for hit probability on your WEZ tool? Sounds like it might be unethical to hunt with mils.

Joking aside, I'm one of the idiots who can't remember their drop or drift from memory in MOA but can remember the adjustment for each rifle to the base MIL quick drop and what my wind number is. Not that it does me any good becasue I'm using a ballistic rangefinder or a printed drop chart to tell me anyway, and most of my limited shots aren't far enough to matter. And one of my two main hunting rifles still wears an MOA scope (still waiting on that Rokscope), but hey, base-10 is more intuitive.



Man, you read a lot more into his lighthearted banter than I did. Are you doing okay?

Hahaha let me jump on WEZ and enter some random shit that makes that seem valid. I like it

Oh shit good point. Remembering dope out to a certain distance is very valid and more simple with MIL.

I still remember my 6.5 CM with MOA. 1.5 @ 200, 4.5 @ 300, 7 @ 400 and 10 @ 500. I never remembered it beyond that. And actually never memorized another gun after that, which admittedly is probably not a great thing, because then I got a ballistic rangefinder.

 

[huntnful]

Appreciate the discussion today. I will say, I did not/have not read, most of your posts historically as light hearted. We all think people see this the way we see it- the internet to me is mostly just a data and information source- pure learning. So I tend to approach others as if what they wrote is from the same goal.

Apologies for digressing in your thread.

Hahaha I get that. That’s probably just your generation . Some of the younger folk like a joke or two.

No apologies necessary. I always enjoy the discussion and banter. And of course respect you for trying to steer things factually.

 

[wyosam]

I was able be .11 more precise with my belly shot by shooting MOA. Literal game changer

The future is 1/8 MOA per click scopes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Harvey_NW]

The future is 1/8 MOA per click scopes.

"How much!?"

"472 clicks!"

 

[solarshooter]

Any long shot I take the time to try and figure out the wind the best I can. It’s not fast at all.

And this is using mils? Because I've found the gun wind number method really useful and easy... Or do you mean making the call in the first place?

I still remember my 6.5 CM with MOA. 1.5 @ 200, 4.5 @ 300, 7 @ 400 and 10 @ 500.

I also tried to do this when I shot MOA. I found it stressful and difficult to get right when switching guns or changing from hunting cold wet sea level woods to hot dry 6kft mountains (sometimes one weekend to the next where I live). Again, with the caveat you are using some rangefinder with built in trajectory calculation, this may not matter. But I've also seen those give bad readings or stop working. Or my buddy is ranging and doesn't have my gun profile queued up in his RF, or doesn't have an RF with the calculator... so many failure modes when you really start to list them out. And that's what finally swayed me.

 

[Jordan Smith]

And this is using mils? Because I've found the gun wind number method really useful and easy... Or do you mean making the call in the first place?


I also tried to do this when I shot MOA. I found it stressful and difficult to get right when switching guns or changing from hunting cold wet sea level woods to hot dry 6kft mountains (sometimes one weekend to the next where I live). Again, with the caveat you are using some rangefinder with built in trajectory calculation, this may not matter. But I've also seen those give bad readings or stop working. Or my buddy is ranging and doesn't have my gun profile queued up in his RF, or doesn't have an RF with the calculator... so many failure modes when you really start to list them out. And that's what finally swayed me.

Yup. Much simpler to remember 0 @ 100 m, 1.0 mrad @ 250 m, 1.5 mrad @ 300, 2.5 @ 400, 3.5 @ 500, 4.5 @ 600, even if you don't use the quick drop method.

 

[huntnful]

And this is using mils? Because I've found the gun wind number method really useful and easy... Or do you mean making the call in the first place?


I also tried to do this when I shot MOA. I found it stressful and difficult to get right when switching guns or changing from hunting cold wet sea level woods to hot dry 6kft mountains (sometimes one weekend to the next where I live). Again, with the caveat you are using some rangefinder with built in trajectory calculation, this may not matter. But I've also seen those give bad readings or stop working. Or my buddy is ranging and doesn't have my gun profile queued up in his RF, or doesn't have an RF with the calculator... so many failure modes when you really start to list them out. And that's what finally swayed me.

No, that’s just making a hopefully correct wind call to begin with. Not making the actual wind hold. I put the wind and direction into my Revics for the wind hold. That’s when I shot MIL and MOA.


Yeah they were definitely just generic numbers and not correct at all elevations. It’s just what I remember from the time. I currently don’t remember any corrections off the top of my head unfortunately. I’ve basically become totally dependent on technology unfortunately. I keep a drop chart for 8000’ elevation in case my stuff takes a shit and a new battery isn’t fixing it, and I’m with a buddy with rangefinder. After that I’d have to drop an on X pin for the estimated location of the animal and get the distance that way. Which is only good for a few hundred yards on incorrect range forgiveness. After that, just try and get close enough that it doesn’t matter.

That’s basically all I have going for me lol.

 

[Hondo64d]

Yup. Much simpler to remember 0 @ 100 m, 1.0 mrad @ 250 m, 1.5 mrad @ 300, 2.5 @ 400, 3.5 @ 500, 4.5 @ 600, even if you don't use the quick drop method.

Simplicity is one of the main reasons I’m planning on shooting my .308s for a while. It’s preferred load does 2 mils at 400, 3 at 500, 4 at 600 and 5.1 at 700. Doesn’t get much easier than that! 6mph gun too.

John

 

[solarshooter]

Yup. Much simpler to remember 0 @ 100 m, 1.0 mrad @ 250 m, 1.5 mrad @ 300, 2.5 @ 400, 3.5 @ 500, 4.5 @ 600, even if you don't use the quick drop method.

I just always use and practice quickdrop. What about 430yds? 260? 550? 2.3, 0.6, 3.5. So easy. No memorization ever. I increase DA 5kft? 1.8, 0.1, 3.0. I can pick up my buddy's 24" 7RM or my 18" 6CM and get pretty damn close with those too. Still no memorization. Just one simple equation and a choice of correction factor.

I put the wind and direction into my Revics for the wind hold.

The biggest advantage for wind is being able to constantly recalculate and update your wind hold without leaving the scope. If the target moves closer and you can estimate that change in range, or if the wind changes speed or direction, you can immediately update your hold.