Wet Mount Rings to Base

[JFK]

No oil. Degrease and I put loctite on every mating surface. Including the pic rail lug where the ring will seat. You unbolt the nut to remove a scope and the rings are still stuck where you left them. Just takes a tap to break them free.

 

[hereinaz]

No oil. Degrease and I put loctite on every mating surface. Including the pic rail lug where the ring will seat. You unbolt the nut to remove a scope and the rings are still stuck where you left them. Just takes a tap to break them free.

This is what I experience with loctite in the rings and scope. I’ll do it with the rail and rings now…

 

[Choupique]

Rod bolts as an example aren’t meant to move or slip but are assembled with a lube

As are lots of true mechanical fasteners for rotating equipment. Foundation bolts, crankshaft adapter bolts, etc.

The difference is those are properly designed real bolted joints. The clamp loads are calculated and require a certain range of bolt stretch to achieve. The bolt isn't going to back out, because it's a strong bolt holding together strong materials that are well fitted and everything is very tight. That doesn't apply to scope bases and rings. Its all poorly fitted, small, weak, and the tiny little bolts have tiny little windows between completely loose and yielded.

Glue is super helpful when assembling dinky stuff. Glue it all together. Loctite makes a fairly good lubricant when wet 242 makes a good bond strength for this application.

 

[gbflyer]

As are lots of true mechanical fasteners for rotating equipment. Foundation bolts, crankshaft adapter bolts, etc.

The difference is those are properly designed real bolted joints. The clamp loads are calculated and require a certain range of bolt stretch to achieve. The bolt isn't going to back out, because it's a strong bolt holding together strong materials that are well fitted and everything is very tight. That doesn't apply to scope bases and rings. Its all poorly fitted, small, weak, and the tiny little bolts have tiny little windows between completely loose and yielded.

Glue is super helpful when assembling dinky stuff. Glue it all together. Loctite makes a fairly good lubricant when wet 242 makes a good bond strength for this application.

Well done. Thanks.


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[Choupique]

Something else to add to it

In a real bolted joint, the bolt is a spring. Its in tension and like a spring, has a range of movement it can go through and will still always return to its original state, in the same amount of tension it started in. Lubricating the bolt with oil does two primary things - reduce friction so less torque is required to achieve the proper bolt stretch, and prevents corrosion. The tension of the bolt is so great that it will not loosen up.

As the bolts get smaller, that allowable range gets smaller, where too much load yields the bolt and too little load allows it to loosen up, which is a deteriorating feedback condition that worsens at an exponential rate. When we're talking about tiny bolts holding together parts of questionable fit and soft materials, its a total crapshoot as to what you will get. Weak adhesives can now become a major contributor to the joints overall strength, depending on the above conditions it might even be the main contributor.

Moral of the story, adhesives are beneficial when mounting things to rifles that you want to not move in normal use. My rifles are doused in loctite 242.

 

[gbflyer]

Something else to add to it

In a real bolted joint, the bolt is a spring. Its in tension and like a spring, has a range of movement it can go through and will still always return to its original state, in the same amount of tension it started in. Lubricating the bolt with oil does two primary things - reduce friction so less torque is required to achieve the proper bolt stretch, and prevents corrosion. The tension of the bolt is so great that it will not loosen up.

As the bolts get smaller, that allowable range gets smaller, where too much load yields the bolt and too little load allows it to loosen up, which is a deteriorating feedback condition that worsens at an exponential rate. When we're talking about tiny bolts holding together parts of questionable fit and soft materials, its a total crapshoot as to what you will get. Weak adhesives can now become a major contributor to the joints overall strength, depending on the above conditions it might even be the main contributor.

Moral of the story, adhesives are beneficial when mounting things to rifles that you want to not move in normal use. My rifles are doused in loctite 242.

Thanks. If you mount pic rings to a pic rail, do you Loctite the ring to base also? Any thoughts on lube properties the Loctite might provide before it sets up and if that is beneficial?

 

[Choupique]

If you mount pic rings to a pic rail, do you Loctite the ring to base also?

I've got loctite 242 in every interface. Rail to rifle, ring to rail, scope tube to ring, and on all the threads of everything. The worst thing about it is that if you disassemble that stuff and plan to reuse it, it kinda sucks to clean it all, and you must clean it so the solid loctite doesn't affect the fit on reassembly.

Any thoughts on lube properties the Loctite might provide before it sets up and if that is beneficial?

It probably is benefitial. The stuff in the video is likely accurare as far as lubricant helping get the fits right, especially since the forces involved are so low. Wet Loctite isn't a good lubricant but it's better than dry steel on dry steel by a measurable amount. It's good enough that you can screw stainless together with far less risk of galling if loctite is used.

 

[JGRaider]

Waste of time and effort. Been mounting them "dry" for 40+ years.

 

[gbflyer]

I've got loctite 242 in every interface. Rail to rifle, ring to rail, scope tube to ring, and on all the threads of everything. The worst thing about it is that if you disassemble that stuff and plan to reuse it, it kinda sucks to clean it all, and you must clean it so the solid loctite doesn't affect the fit on reassembly.




It probably is benefitial. The stuff in the video is likely accurare as far as lubricant helping get the fits right, especially since the forces involved are so low. Wet Loctite isn't a good lubricant but it's better than dry steel on dry steel by a measurable amount. It's good enough that you can screw stainless together with far less risk of galling if loctite is used.

Thank you.


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[gbflyer]

Waste of time and effort. Been mounting them "dry" for 40+ years.

Me too. I thought I was the only one who had trouble with certain scope manufactures until I started reading here, always room to learn.

 

[Choupique]

Been mounting them "dry" for 40+ years.

Because in real life, almost none of this stuff actually matters. Its just fun to skull cramp about it all.

 

[Venatic]

This is only about lubricants on the rail or whatever your rings are clamping to on your rifle. Has nothing to do with the screws on the rings themselves. Believe it or don’t up to you but I could see how some would poo poo it’s as it would throw all the dropping of scopes testing out the window as it means it was probably the mounts.

 

[parshal]

No loctite on any rifle component for me. I remove my stuff relatively frequently, though.

I won't go removing my scopes just to add grease but I see zero reason not to do so when I next move a scope.

 

[Choupique]

won't go removing my scopes just to add grease but I see zero reason not to do so when I next move a scope.

As form said, generally putting slippery stuff you don't want slipping can be counter-productive.

If the rings and rail fit well, it shouldn't matter. Properly fitted it should stay where it needs to be regardless of how lubricated it is or how tight the fasteners are. I think the fit is where the issues usually stem from and high quality parts likely make it a non-issue.

Now, greasing screw threads or anything that is strictly friction fit (scope tube) I could see going very poorly very often.

 

[parshal]

I have a friend that is the lead engineer at one of the major ring/mount manufacturers and he said he sees no issue at all adding lube to the pic rail and will do it himself. He sees no downfall and nothing bad as a result. It may do nothing but won't hurt.