Western Mountaineering Badger GWS- Worthless- a review

Joined
Jun 9, 2022
Messages
4
I am here to give a review on my Western Mountaineering Badger GWS 6'6" bag, that i bought in july this year and have about 120+ bag nights in. Im actually in it right now, out in the woods of western oregon.

I always wondered why i stayed cold in this 15 degree bag, but after a conversation with a backcountry.com rep last night, there seem to be some issues with their rating system. This bag is rated at a 15 degree survival rating, the comfort rating is 30 degrees, and thats in a 4-season tent, on a 4.5 r-value pad, wearing merino long underwear. Having to purchase an additional $1000+ in gear to have a comfort rating twice the advertised degree rating of the bag isnt just disingenuous, its a fabrication, a lie.

I am currently in a Sierra Designs 4 season tent, on a klymit sv insulated 4.4 r value pad, in minus 33 merino long underwear top, bottom, socks, hat, in my badger GWS sleeping bag. Its 41 degrees per my phone, very light breeze. Im uncomfortable, cold, not getting sleep. Ive been in this spot for 2 nights, lots of tree protection. My sleeping bag is put in a stuff sack every night, taken out and used. Its not a big deal to sleep bad a few nights, but im going on 3 solid months of it, with 15+ mile days of walking, and the expectation when purchasing something, especially as expensive as this bag, is that it actually do what it says it will.

This is going to be some editoralizing, but has been my experience with every single outdoor gear manufacturer. Lots of great reviews in whatever the product is, which then fails in the field. Before this bag i had a old north face down 0, kifaru 0 slick bag (both side and center zip versions), a feathered friends 0. I live outside. Walk everywhere i go, occasional freight ride. I depend on gear to live. I actually depend on it, theres no going back to a house, or getting in a car with the heat on. I wish just one company would make a product that lives up to the marketing hype. I read reviews for western mountaineering all over the web, folks raving about how great they are. But i wonder if anyone even uses stuff anymore, or if its all just ego boosting fluff online.

As a side note, getting in touch with Western Mountaineering is a massive pain. Theres no contact number, emails go unanswered. That means whatever warranty is worthless.

Apologies for not having the post count to be taken seriously on a online forum dedicated to outdoor pursuits and gear.

Have a nice day!
 

dryfly101

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
190
I would bet the issue is moisture. Down bags like to be hung and dried out after a few days. A body makes a lot of moisture and there is no shortage of it in Western Oregon. My alpenlite is great, but I've not used it for more than a week yet. Are you able to get it dried out somehow every few days?

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dutch_henry

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
256
Location
Vermont
I'm curious why you bought a 15F bag if you were previously cold in 0F bags?

Also, that Backcountry rep is completely wrong and fed you some lazy BS. But what do you expect from a call bank worker at a gear company owned by a private equity firm based in the San Francisco financial district? Here are the real stats from WM, if you scroll down: https://www.westernmountaineering.com/faqs/
 

ljalberta

WKR
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
1,439
Your pad has a 1.9 r value… The problem is not the bag here, but I suspect is with the user understanding, building, and maintaining a sleeping system.

I would be cold and uncomfortable on that pad as well. It’s losing heat all night long. Something like a thin foam Z Lite provides more insulation than the Klymit SV. Look for the ATSM ratings in pads, and not the silly number Klymit puts. Buy an Xtherm and you’ll immediately understand the difference a proper pad makes.

I suspect that your bag needs a good washing at this point as well based on its use to free the down of built up oils. Loft diminishes as the down is infected by oils from our body.

Once you’ve refreshed your bag and updated to a properly insulating pad, you may have to watch out for sweating at night in warmer temperatures, otherwise you can get wet, and wake up cold in the night.

You also may be an extra cold sleeper. Part of building a sleeping system is understanding what your personal body requires. I sleep cold as well. I can sleep in the exact same bag, pad, clothes as a friend and he will be comfortable almost 10* colder than I.

Once you understand what you require, you use the standardized EN ratings, look at cuts and dimensions of bags, and loft amounts to determine what you need for the temperatures you’ll experience.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
1,093
Location
Colo Spgs
This is old news. Has been going on forever. Most don’t realize or they do sleep in tent, sheltered from wind, on appropriate pad, etc etc.

My dad sleeps in a sleeping bag outside about 350 days each and every year.

Majority of sleeping bag rations are total BS, yes, this is a fact. Survival at X temp and comfort at temp (but it’s all in personal opinion because we all have different body composition, blood flow, mental toughness, etc.

Granted, a select few top of the line brands “likely” do have somewhat accurate ratings, but again it all comes back to your body type.

My dad has a Marmot CVM -40 and used it year around (unzipped in warm weather). The Pennsylvania weather hardly ever gets below zero. And he is old, so his blood flow is not optimal, therefore he needs a bag that’s rated for colder temps than what he actually in theory would need.

Myself, I have a 40,20,0 and -20 marmot bag for each of those levels of temps. If temps are expected to get
Below 32, I use the -20 bag. I have used the zero degree bag before on 10 day hunt and didn’t sleep because I was COLD.

Long story short: majority of bags out there have inaccurate ratings.

I do expect to give feathered friends and western mountaineering another try for next season.


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TX_Diver

WKR
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
2,203
I found a phone # just by googling them. I called a few months ago and someone answered the phone and was extremely helpful w/ my questions. I also got quick responses to e-mails.
 

WoodBow

WKR
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Messages
1,744
I was in a WM apache 15 degree bag in 32 degree temps and I was too hot to zip it up. I am also a pretty thin guy. Sounds to me like you are doing something wrong or your down is wet/dirty.
 

Jon Boy

WKR
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
1,715
Location
Paradise Valley, MT
I'm about the coldest sleeper known to man kind and my badger and 3/4 trail scout has kept me very comfortable down to 20*. Although I am not discounting the OPs experience as I've experienced buying the piece of gear everyone is raving about and being absolutely disappointed in it. However, that pad aint helping much.
 

t_carlson

WKR
Joined
Nov 1, 2022
Messages
504
Location
Montana
I live outside. Walk everywhere i go, occasional freight ride. I depend on gear to live. I actually depend on it, theres no going back to a house, or getting in a car with the heat on.

I'm surprised I'm the first one to ask this question. From your cryptic post, it sounds like you are the first wino in the world to own a WM bag.


Exactly what are you doing?
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
509
Location
Pine, CO
I have a 20 year old WM Antelope super dryloft, have slept out in temps far below it's 5 degree rating, never been cold in it (layered appropriately, I don't want to crawl out of a warm bag without at least a base layer on)... Have hundreds of days in it, in nasty conditions. I do run a OR helium bivy over it to keep it dry from ice crystals and condensation. They have great customer service, have had multiple chats about re-lofting and reconditioning bags with them. As noted before, get a better pad. X-therm with a foam underneath it and you shouldn't be losing heat to the ground. Wash your bag, it's probably oily with that many days in it.
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Messages
882
Maybe he bought a lot in a neighborhood, cant afford to build a house yet, sleeps in a tent, and walks 7.5 miles to and from work everyday where he charges his phone.


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Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
1,186
Location
British Columbia
Your post should not be "Western Mountaineering Badger GWS- Worthless- a review" and rather your soapbox "Rant About Marketing in the Outdoor Industry"

From the sounds of it you may or may not be eating enough to stay warm at night but then again I have a lot more questions than just that before we even get your sleeping bag problem.
 
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