Waterfowl shotguns rambling and observation

[Southernfriedwerewolf]

Maybe I have a problem , lol!? But I’m thinking not - two sons that will be gun carrying hunters soon.

Regardless when I see a decent deal I’m inclined to pursue it and so I have 7 waterfowl shotguns- Franchi affinity elite, Winnie sx4 20 hybrid and 12, two Remington v3 in 12 (twins) , a cz 712 and a Remington 11-87 . Other than controls and a few unique features like mag cutoff they are all VERY similar. Like really similar.

The Remington v3’s are right there with the Franchi ( build quality, function, design layout, weight, ) but half the price ( used market) but they no longer make them ie., Remington has woes .

Theyr’re all great and do what they should- but the v3 really suits how I hunt. Walking in, setting up, unloads easy , change ammo easy as it has mag cutoff feature, oversized controls , easy to swing, easy to carry, takes REM chokes . Fast shooting- low recoil- Light shooting even my wife can use it and not get beat up all day…. etc - unless I’m using 20 ga, I’m taking a V3 or the Franchi.

So I got to thinking? Why are they all so similar? Well , cause there’s several at most large firearm companies making it all or at least 85% of what’s on the market. The Rendition V3 out of this group was the ONLY USA made - owning these I’ve learned this , very few , maybe none ? ( Beretta in Tennessee assembles). None now are made in USA - its Turkey and Portugal manufacturing and so semi auto waterfowl shotguns ( for sure, other styles too) are all 98% alike - it’s the ergonomics and system controls that matter and the name, customer service that matters now - again of these I have , a decent selection of current market choices, and the V3 is the only unique shotgun- vents gas differently, operating system is unique, mag cutoff - all others are basically the same with cloves in camo, lol! anyhow I’d love to hear others thoughts and observations .

 

[Southernfriedwerewolf]

In addition - I hope RemArms rises like the proverbial phoenix as an American firearms company AND manufacturer

They’ve moved production to Georgia from NY (kudos to them!!). And their website states the V3 is one of two auto loading shotguns being made

V3 Field Pro | Remington

 

[Macintosh]

Just bought my third ever autoloading shotgun a year or so ago. Around 1983 I bought an 1100 20 ga. Around 2000 I bought a 16ga 11-48. And last year I bought a beretta 3901 with the stickers still on it. 3 totally different guns, none of which are still made. The 1100 was a classic, but limited to 2 3/4” shells and wouldn’t work great with steel for water fowling much I suppose. The 1148 was an oddball gauge, good bird gun, not too heavy, but it was recoil operated and the recoiling barrel felt like you were shooting a pogo stick, never could get used to that. The Beretta is really great, love the shims on the stock to get a better fit, and it cycles everything I’ve put through it ranging from super light target loads up to turkey-whompers, and hasn’t even had a hint of not cycling, even covered in muddy water and frozen shut. Can’t speak to a lot of of the current guns, but there certainly are different actions, gas operated versus recoil operated, and you hear a lot about people whose guns will only cycle heavy loads or dont cycle reliably. I did a fundraiser sporting clays shoot this past spring, guy on our squad with a relatively new Benelli had every other round fail to cycle. I guess my take away is that the new stuff doesn’t seem any better than the old models, seems like a good thing to buy used.

 

[Southernfriedwerewolf]

Yes for sure - same here . Several older models worked well lines Remington 1100 skeet and 870 field and 11-87 (just heavy)

New auto loaders overall try to feed all ammo sizes and loads and several solve this with piston changes or gas system tweaks -

Wild to hear about the Benelli malfunctioning . It happens though - ultimate reliability i guess are pumps and super posed over under or SxS

 

[beerbucksducks]

I have shot an 1187 premier light contour since I was 13. I have a browning gold I use for ducks now, have had franchi’s, and shot benelli’s but I don’t shoot any of them nearly as well as that old 1187. I’ve been considering trading off the browning for another 1187 since they aren’t made anymore (as far as I know). I’d love to see RemArms produce new 1187s.


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[Loper]

Mossberg makes semi auto shotguns in the USA. Most people overlook Mossberg or write them off as a budget shotgun, but they are a well established shotgun manufacturer that makes a good product to kill ducks.

Additionally, unlike all the other manufacturers, they place the safety right where it should be, on the tang, just like your SxS and over-under.

 

[Kurts86]

When were good semiautomatic shotguns US made in the last generation? My entire life the Italians dominated the market and browning has always outsourced their manufacturing to Japan/Belgium/Portugal? Remington has been crippled or dead since the private equity takeover in 2006. Their semiautos weren’t really competitive since the 1100 was cutting edge tech in the 1960’s. The 11-87 in 1987 was almost immediately obsoleted with 3.5” 12 gauge a few years later. The V3 was a blatant rip off of the Italian shotguns and was only made for a few years during Remingtons chaotic years in hospice.

All of your observations are limited to a tier below flagship shotguns and a lot of dated designs. There have been a lot of marginal gains made in flagship semi auto shotguns in the last 20 years, non of which are revolutionary but the sum of their parts create a significantly better system when combined with modern ammo.

Yes budget or mid range semiautomatics are probably the most improved shotguns in recent memory. They serve a lot of shooters well enough.

Remington will never rise from the ashes. You can thank the modern business practices of private equity and state incentivized manufacturing site moves for killing the brand.

 

[FLS]

All the gas guns are pretty similar and all the recoil guns are pretty similar. Each year it’s a few minor tweaks for marketing. I’ve shot a Beretta AL 390 since they came out. I’ve had it rebuilt twice, tens of thousands of rounds thru that gun. I’ve also got a 391 that was my clays gun that has even more rounds on it. I haven’t seen enough improvements to justify replacing either. Before those I shot 1100s and 11-87s. If they are well maintained they are really good shotguns, but parts are getting harder to find and they just don’t hold up to high volume shooting like the Italian guns.

 

[naked wombats]

relatively new Benelli had every other round fail to cycle

Usually on the inertia guns the spring is tight at first. After a few boxes of 3" duck loads it should cycle pretty much everything without trouble.

 

[Kurts86]

I’ve shot a Beretta AL 390 since they came out. I’ve had it rebuilt twice, tens of thousands of rounds thru that gun. I’ve also got a 391 that was my clays gun that has even more rounds on it. I haven’t seen enough improvements to justify replacing either.

I have an AL390 that I’ve had since 1998 and my dad has the same gun in a current A400 and the recoil is significantly less on the A400 series due to the kick off system more than anything. Other than that the 390 gas system gets dirty a bit faster but they shoot similarly.

I do think going from mobil choke to the current optima HP does produce better patterns generally just due to the lengths of the chokes and harder steels but the ammo choke combination wins out here ultimately. That said switching choke systems sucks when they cost $75/each for marginal gains.

 

[Davyalabama]

I think I can reply with some knowledge of how I feel about guns.

1) How does it fit you ---- LOP, sight picture (are you a humpback or curve lover), drop at comb, cycling (inertia or gas), weight, weight balancing, barrel length, etc.

2) How much do you shoot? Are you shooting skeet a lot with this gun or clays, do you need it to handle under 1 oz. loads plus heavy duck loads, do you practice swinging it without firing, do you put it away and not do anything except wipe it down in the off season, etc.

3) How hard are you on it? Are you a saltwater hunter, monsoon hunter, wipe it down put it away, how about just meticulous and want it grade A from buying to selling/giving to grandson/granddaughter, do you want to hunt it - may get scratched, but it will be taken care of the best I can

4) How will you hunt it -- This gun for this, this gun for that, one gun from doves/quail - woodcock and chukers--ducks/geese/pheasants

I shoot a variety of guns, mainly for nostalgia now, I take guns that have been passed down to me and carry the memories of those men/loved ones with me. I kill my share of game I hunt ---- I still get a thrill out of killing a dove-a redhead/bluebill-a nice, nice buck-a nice gobbler-etc., I haven't lost the thrill, it's in me ----- I can do it with a model 12, A5, 1100, even the first gun I was ever allowed to carry on my own at 6 (Winchester model 59, yep fiberglass coated barrel). I don't shoot it much with the heavy loads anymore, just doves ---- it swings like a dream. The winchesters and remingtons I like better for the curved and the stocks ---- The model 12 points itself --- That gun comes up and is on point, eyes closed -------The A5 humpback that barrel coming back, I never enjoyed, until I lost my dad - his gun ---- now, I have to kill a turkey with it, every year.