Washington Hunters Need your Help

Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Messages
43
WDFW_Conservation_policy- small.png
Without the recent decisions, actions, statements, & mishandlings of issues like the cancellation of spring bear hunting, rule breaking private communications during commission meetings that affected votes, and recent commissioners presently being on the advisory boards of anti-hunting organizations, maybe we wouldn't be suspicious of this new "conservation draft policy" presented by the WDFW Commission. But in the spirit of protecting wildlife, the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, a century's worth of true conservation success stories through Pittman Roberson, Dingell-Johnson, and the numerous ways that sportsmen contribute to the health, prosperity, and progress of North America's wildlife, one should be concerned.

  1. Role of Hunting in Conservation: Historically, hunting has played a significant role in conservation efforts in the United States. Unregulated killing and habitat destruction in the late 19th century pushed many species to the brink of extinction. In response, sportsmen organized conservation groups and advocated for hunting regulations. This marked a turning point in conservation and is a reason why many species that are hunted today still persist1.
  2. Funding Conservation: Hunting-related activities provide a substantial amount of funding for conservation. For example, in 2017, more than 15 million Americans purchased a hunting license, generating over $500 million in revenue for conservation. Also, most states use the revenue from license sales as matching funds they must have to gain access to funding from acts like the Pittman-Robertson Act and the Dingell-Johnson Act, which generate revenue through excise taxes on firearms, ammunition, and fishing equipment, respectively1. Hunters also raise millions of dollars and contribute thousands of volunteer hours to conservation through their memberships in organizations such as the National Wild Turkey Federation and Ducks Unlimited1.
  3. Wildlife Management: Hunters play a crucial role in managing the size of certain animal populations. Some prey animals, such as elk or deer, can become overabundant in their habitat due to a lack of predators or landscape changes. This overabundance can threaten the well-being of other species and in some instances, impact human health and safety. Regulated hunting is an effective tool that state wildlife agencies use to manage the overpopulation of a species. Wildlife managers model population growth and set management regulations based on field research and harvest data, which can be informed by hunter reports1.
The WDFW Commission is taking comment on the draft version of their conservation policy. You can read it here.

The draft, in development by a few members of the Fish and Wildlife Commission and WDFW staff for about two years, would direct the agency “to preserve and protect Washington’s fish and wildlife and their habitats by proactively addressing current and emerging conservation challenges,” Read more here.

Recent Commissioner Thorburn has this to say about the draft:

“not good governance,” as well as an “advancement of an animal rights preservationist ideological agenda, not conservation.”

Those are the words of Kim Thorburn of Spokane in a May 20 letter to her old colleagues in fish and wildlife policy and management oversight. Thornburn was not surprising re-appointed to the commission by Washington Gov. Inslee. Read more on this here.

RMEF has this to say about the draft:

The draft commission Conservation Policy has apparently been under development for two years, but the public and sportsmen and women have only been given access to it since April. This is troubling for several reasons. First, the policy creates an entirely new definition of “conservation” that uses several political buzz-words common in the anti-hunting movement. Second, the policy cherry-picks portions of the statutory mandate of the commission, specifically the “preserving and protecting” of wildlife while it is silent to the rest of RCW 77.04.012 that requires the commission to “perpetuate and manage the wildlife and food fish, game fish, and shellfish” of the state. Finally, a major concern is the policy introduces the “Precautionary Principle” as one of the guiding concepts, which is very controversial in wildlife management as it is used to overrule scientific-based management whenever uncertainty exists, and is used to restrict harvest or implement restrictive regulations even when population impacts cannot be measured.


How To Get Involved:

Register to speak at the June 22 commission meeting or attend:

Watch/Participate with Zoom

Agenda

Register Here To Speak Virtually: https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/public-testimony - be sure to select June 22 & "5. Conservation Policy – Briefing, Public Comment" The comment period for the draft conservation policy is scheduled at 3:55p on Thursday June 22.

To Attend in Person:

Location: Residence Inn by Marriott Seattle Downtown/Lake Union
800 Fairview Ave N, Seattle, WA 98109
Port Townsend Meeting Room

In-Person Participation:
If you want to provide testimony in-person, please complete a "Public Testimony" form (available at the meeting registration table) before starting that agenda item. Submit your completed form to the Commission representative at the registration table before that agenda item. When registering to testify, please provide your first and last name, what topic you would like to speak about, a valid email address, and a phone number.


Below is your opportunity to comment directly to the WDFW's portal to comment on this draft. We've put together a log of numerous 1-2 paragraph success stories of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation & success stories of wildlife and habitat being restored, recovered and abundant due to sportsment dollars. These are for you use to start your conversation. Each user will see different content below. Edit at will, please be polite. You can additional submit comments here.

 

Mag_7s

WKR
Joined
Nov 7, 2022
Messages
522
Yes, please take a minute and add your Howl. Radical emotional ideology has a stronghold in Washington state. There is also an "idea" of having an A, B season. Meaning, depending on how they divide up hunters, you will get to hunt every other year. This will be under the guise of providing a better "experience". In my opinion it's to perpetuate a disinterest in our future generations of hunters. If you don't live in Wa, this will also affect you as every Washington hunter that has the means will be hunting out of state. So please fellow Roksliders, we need your help.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2022
Messages
90
Thank you for the help howl. WASHINGTON and Oregon are under attack by the leftist and it’s a long road to recovery. Funny thing is I have lived here my entire life but in a more conservative part of WA and never meant any these left wing whack jobs? Most ALL people I know support hunting and fishing and predator control. All these people must all be in King County near Seattle.
Our wildlife commission is a joke. Our governor is a joke. Unfortunately it’s gotten so bad many are leaving!!! I’m changing residency to but it’s mainly because I don’t like rain anymore and my children are almost all over 18. The political climate definitely doesn’t help me in wanting to stay. Our governor thinks anyone who carries is a criminal


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Last edited:
Joined
Dec 3, 2022
Messages
90
Yes, please take a minute and add your Howl. Radical emotional ideology has a stronghold in Washington state. There is also an "idea" of having an A, B season. Meaning, depending on how they divide up hunters, you will get to hunt every other year. This will be under the guise of providing a better "experience". In my opinion it's to perpetuate a disinterest in our future generations of hunters. If you don't live in Wa, this will also affect you as every Washington hunter that has the means will be hunting out of state. So please fellow Roksliders, we need your help.

Your exactly right but most I know quit hunting WA over a decade ago. All this nonsense will push more to look at Idaho and Montana and the others
We still have salmon going for us and a lot of turkeys. Oh and WDFW manages razor clams pretty good.


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Mag_7s

WKR
Joined
Nov 7, 2022
Messages
522
Your exactly right but most I know quit hunting WA over a decade ago. All this nonsense will push more to look at Idaho and Montana and the others
We still have salmon going for us and a lot of turkeys. Oh and WDFW manages razor clams pretty good.


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I still really enjoy hunting Washington, it's defently a struggle though. I hear ya on on the political climate, it's becoming very difficult to want to stay.
 
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
3,544
Location
Washington
This is another example of what we are up against. Social science? That isn’t science. It is emotional opinions.

4a26684e8401f1e4cca6a8c1eee33aad.jpg



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Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
2,834
Location
West Virginia
The introduction referencing climate change is ridiculous. Wildlife adapts. The climate isn’t the issue. Leave that crap out. It’s a fallacy to suggest the climate is hurting hunting opportunity.
 

Arthas

FNG
Joined
Mar 28, 2023
Messages
73
Bump this back up....Washington could be the 1st state to loose hunting and if that happens, others will be easier... Thats the goal of the antis

This is a woke social justice policy issue. While there may be anti hunter(s) on the commission, the policies and ideology enabling them is a broad spectrum of woke social justice policies designed to capture and encapsulate every governmental policy in an intersectional framework.

Within moments of researching recent legislation and policy in the state of Washington including that at washington fish and game, this is obvious. Failing to understand and address this means groups like @howlforwildlife are simply fighting the symptoms not the cause. I wish WA hunters and conservation groups luck but I am quite concerned that the hunting community does not understand the problem well enough to succeed long term even if they are able to pull off a miracle this round.

It will be difficult to convince a group of ideologues that believe modern gender theory and that the solution to simple mathematical equations are relative based on what race someone is of a complex wildlife management plan that relies on empirical data.



 

Z71&Gun

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
232
Location
Washington
I'm signed up for public comment on Saturday. I thought a lot of my questions were satisfactorily answered today until whatserface blew it all up by trying to invoke the precautionary principle again.

I can't watch tomorrow's presentation live. Does anyone know where I can watch it later to catch up?

So far my public comment is going to be a brief history and education around the precautionary principle, what it's meant for and how it works. In short, it is meant to address real concerns arising from observation or deduction. It was popularized by Rachel Carson in Silent Spring when she raised concerns about the sudden widespread use of pesticides. It is invoked when there is no historical data. This is not the case with bear hunting in Washington.

The principle is not meant as an answer for baseless concerns such as "does the long standing practice of bear hunting threaten the ecosystem or the bear population?" There is no evidence to suggest that it does, neither observational or through inductive or deductive reasoning. If we applied the precautionary principle to every baseless concern, we would do as little as possible all the time. One may as well ask if bears have souls and stop hunting them in an abundance of caution in case they do. If they have souls, we shouldn't hunt them, but in the history of bear biology there is no evidence to suggest or infer that they have souls. Thus, this would be a mis-application of the principle.

I need to polish that up a bit, but you get the idea. Any other suggestions?
 
OP
Howl For Wildlife
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Messages
43
I'm not sure what it is we don't understand but our goal is to get as many sportsmen involved in the issues. There is a absolutely disastrous lack of participation from sportsmen.

To answer the other question from the other commentor you can view tomorrows event after they post the recording which is usually pretty quick.


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Z71&Gun

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
232
Location
Washington
I hope that non-residents of Washington, who never plan to hunt here, are considering the implications of Washington's woke activist wildlife mgmt. Hunters per huntable acre is a growing concern in the west. Matt Rinella and Randy Newberg had a great discussion about this issue on the Hunt Quietly podcast. What the discussion lacked was a temporal element. Something like hunter-hours per huntable acre-hour. For every acre-hour taken from Washington in the season setting process, a hunter-hour is potentially added to a huntable acre-hour in another western state. If you live in Idaho, Montana, etc. a subtraction from our denominator could mean an addition to your numerator. Some of us might even move to your state. In a landscape already saturated with Seattleites, don't sit idly by while the commission opens the flood gates to I-90 East. Something to consider.
 
OP
Howl For Wildlife
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Messages
43
I'm signed up for public comment on Saturday. I thought a lot of my questions were satisfactorily answered today until whatserface blew it all up by trying to invoke the precautionary principle again.

I can't watch tomorrow's presentation live. Does anyone know where I can watch it later to catch up?

So far my public comment is going to be a brief history and education around the precautionary principle, what it's meant for and how it works. In short, it is meant to address real concerns arising from observation or deduction. It was popularized by Rachel Carson in Silent Spring when she raised concerns about the sudden widespread use of pesticides. It is invoked when there is no historical data. This is not the case with bear hunting in Washington.

The principle is not meant as an answer for baseless concerns such as "does the long standing practice of bear hunting threaten the ecosystem or the bear population?" There is no evidence to suggest that it does, neither observational or through inductive or deductive reasoning. If we applied the precautionary principle to every baseless concern, we would do as little as possible all the time. One may as well ask if bears have souls and stop hunting them in an abundance of caution in case they do. If they have souls, we shouldn't hunt them, but in the history of bear biology there is no evidence to suggest or infer that they have souls. Thus, this would be a mis-application of the principle.

I need to polish that up a bit, but you get the idea. Any other suggestions?
i love what you wrote about the precautionary principle. Spot on.
 

Z71&Gun

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
232
Location
Washington
Thanks for showing up at the committee meeting! I had to add to my intro that I was a HOWL portal commenter after that lady suggested subtracting the 900+ comments through your portal after assuming they were all from non-residents. I could have gone in on that analysis for well over my three minute limit. How many of their 300 or so comments came from out of state or through national orgs? Should we subtract all those? I don't think they would like the results an apple to apples comparison of resident comments.
 

Arthas

FNG
Joined
Mar 28, 2023
Messages
73
I'm not sure what it is we don't understand but our goal is to get as many sportsmen involved in the issues. There is a absolutely disastrous lack of participation from sportsmen.

To answer the other question from the other commentor you can view tomorrows event after they post the recording which is usually pretty quick.


Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
My post above was not meant to be disrespectful towards HOWL or WA hunters or sportsman and women. I listened to the majority of the meetings over the last 2 days as I worked. I would commend HOWL for having a critical role in mobilizing many excellent commenters. From what I have read and heard, HOWL and other sportsman in WA are doing what they can. In fact the types of information and comments, HOWL and other members of the hunting public are putting forward are absolutely crucial to have on the record. If this becomes a legal battle, on the record information and comment will be important.

I guess 1 question i have for washingtonians, what does equitable mean in the draft and former conservation plan? Also during the meeting specifically the social science presentation, equity was referred to a lot. Does WDFW define that somewhere? Based on the meeting, it sounds like the commissioners may seek help from the social scientists at WDFW to help guide them in this decision process.

Good luck to HOWL and WA hunters in getting their spring season.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 12, 2023
Messages
12
Location
Winthrop WA
View attachment 565890
Without the recent decisions, actions, statements, & mishandlings of issues like the cancellation of spring bear hunting, rule breaking private communications during commission meetings that affected votes, and recent commissioners presently being on the advisory boards of anti-hunting organizations, maybe we wouldn't be suspicious of this new "conservation draft policy" presented by the WDFW Commission. But in the spirit of protecting wildlife, the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, a century's worth of true conservation success stories through Pittman Roberson, Dingell-Johnson, and the numerous ways that sportsmen contribute to the health, prosperity, and progress of North America's wildlife, one should be concerned.

  1. Role of Hunting in Conservation: Historically, hunting has played a significant role in conservation efforts in the United States. Unregulated killing and habitat destruction in the late 19th century pushed many species to the brink of extinction. In response, sportsmen organized conservation groups and advocated for hunting regulations. This marked a turning point in conservation and is a reason why many species that are hunted today still persist1.
  2. Funding Conservation: Hunting-related activities provide a substantial amount of funding for conservation. For example, in 2017, more than 15 million Americans purchased a hunting license, generating over $500 million in revenue for conservation. Also, most states use the revenue from license sales as matching funds they must have to gain access to funding from acts like the Pittman-Robertson Act and the Dingell-Johnson Act, which generate revenue through excise taxes on firearms, ammunition, and fishing equipment, respectively1. Hunters also raise millions of dollars and contribute thousands of volunteer hours to conservation through their memberships in organizations such as the National Wild Turkey Federation and Ducks Unlimited1.
  3. Wildlife Management: Hunters play a crucial role in managing the size of certain animal populations. Some prey animals, such as elk or deer, can become overabundant in their habitat due to a lack of predators or landscape changes. This overabundance can threaten the well-being of other species and in some instances, impact human health and safety. Regulated hunting is an effective tool that state wildlife agencies use to manage the overpopulation of a species. Wildlife managers model population growth and set management regulations based on field research and harvest data, which can be informed by hunter reports1.
The WDFW Commission is taking comment on the draft version of their conservation policy. You can read it here.

The draft, in development by a few members of the Fish and Wildlife Commission and WDFW staff for about two years, would direct the agency “to preserve and protect Washington’s fish and wildlife and their habitats by proactively addressing current and emerging conservation challenges,” Read more here.

Recent Commissioner Thorburn has this to say about the draft:

“not good governance,” as well as an “advancement of an animal rights preservationist ideological agenda, not conservation.”

Those are the words of Kim Thorburn of Spokane in a May 20 letter to her old colleagues in fish and wildlife policy and management oversight. Thornburn was not surprising re-appointed to the commission by Washington Gov. Inslee. Read more on this here.

RMEF has this to say about the draft:

The draft commission Conservation Policy has apparently been under development for two years, but the public and sportsmen and women have only been given access to it since April. This is troubling for several reasons. First, the policy creates an entirely new definition of “conservation” that uses several political buzz-words common in the anti-hunting movement. Second, the policy cherry-picks portions of the statutory mandate of the commission, specifically the “preserving and protecting” of wildlife while it is silent to the rest of RCW 77.04.012 that requires the commission to “perpetuate and manage the wildlife and food fish, game fish, and shellfish” of the state. Finally, a major concern is the policy introduces the “Precautionary Principle” as one of the guiding concepts, which is very controversial in wildlife management as it is used to overrule scientific-based management whenever uncertainty exists, and is used to restrict harvest or implement restrictive regulations even when population impacts cannot be measured.


How To Get Involved:

Register to speak at the June 22 commission meeting or attend:

Watch/Participate with Zoom

Agenda

Register Here To Speak Virtually: https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/public-testimony - be sure to select June 22 & "5. Conservation Policy – Briefing, Public Comment" The comment period for the draft conservation policy is scheduled at 3:55p on Thursday June 22.

To Attend in Person:

Location: Residence Inn by Marriott Seattle Downtown/Lake Union
800 Fairview Ave N, Seattle, WA 98109
Port Townsend Meeting Room

In-Person Participation:
If you want to provide testimony in-person, please complete a "Public Testimony" form (available at the meeting registration table) before starting that agenda item. Submit your completed form to the Commission representative at the registration table before that agenda item. When registering to testify, please provide your first and last name, what topic you would like to speak about, a valid email address, and a phone number.


Below is your opportunity to comment directly to the WDFW's portal to comment on this draft. We've put together a log of numerous 1-2 paragraph success stories of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation & success stories of wildlife and habitat being restored, recovered and abundant due to sportsment dollars. These are for you use to start your conversation. Each user will see different content below. Edit at will, please be polite. You can additional submit comments here.

Appreciate all the work being done in WA
 
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