Vortex PSA / Need to vent

[Napperm4]

Lol, Roger, avoid the cleaning. Yeah I live in the mid-range optic world. All of my glass is leupold, vortex, and trijicon. Everyone around me thinks I have premium optics and I'm just like, you have no idea.

Lol. Nothing wrong with any of that. I run vx3’s on all my rifles. No need to get anything fancier than that and I still argue that’s a premium optic. I’m not into long range or competitive shooting. I shoot in the field between 50-500 yards and they’ve never let me down. Their warranty has been heads above this experience too.

Also you can see above I’ve run some Leupold spotters too. The 15-30x50 is an awesome little machine. It sees most of its action from friends as a loaner but I can’t bring myself to part with that little beauty.

It’s all in the eye of the beholder. I wasn’t always as lucky as I am at my current age and there was a time bushnell legend HD’s were “premium” among my group.

As much as I preach “buy once, cry once” I didn’t follow that mantra. I started hunting at age 10. My old man gave me my first rifle and that was it. I worked my way up every year with “best I could afford” and still do. I find that way when I’m asked for advice I can put myself in the other persons shoes. I always think if I was in their position and had xxxx to spend, would I have been happy or gone a different route.

Lol as a collective our gear ranges all over the place with some surprising bang for the buck optics.

I’m one of the few that is always pumping the Vanguard endeavour HD spotter. I picked one up for the old man as a 60th birthday gift as his eyesight is horrible and he felt anything more than that was a waste. Well I’ll be damned if everyone hasn’t switched out their razors for the vanguards and are thrilled. They all got decent resale and managed to upgrade some of their other gear with the proceeds.

Hahaha as much as I wish it - I’m not sponsored nor will I ever be brand loyal. I am fortunate enough to experiment with almost anything gear wise I want and I keep what works best for me - not always the biggest name, most expensive item or the popular choice. But if it works for me I don’t really care what anyone else thinks.


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[Napperm4]

I did send them in last year after the first mishap with my spotter, and it isn't exactly cheap to ship them all with insurance in case they got lost. I got three stickers out of the whole deal. I believe mine took 3 weeks to get them back, but I get itchy if I don't look through my binos in a couple of weeks. It's not like I've got a decent back up just sitting at home. They are the Bushnell XLT Trophy. They are not decent IMO.

Ahhh yes. That is shitty. Lol at least they offered me a t shirt and stickers.

I feel for you. You’re exactly the type of case I hope to educate by posting this. I made sure to mention on Facebook and I think Instagram that when I had an issue at Leupold they sent me a new spotter before I was able to get the old one in the mail. No questions asked, no pictures requested. In fairness I live 10 minutes away from their Canadian service depot.

I’m shocked they charged you for the shipping. I paid for the first time I sent these to vortex but the rep was quite quick to send me a pre paid and insured mailing label. Part of the timing is that import / export for optics to Canada is highly regulated so I have to send them to a depot on the other side of the country who then sends them to the USA for repair.

I can fully accept the time it takes but wish they got the job right the first time. Or the second time... hence the reason I took to social media. I’m lucky that I have a couple pairs of 10x swaros as primary glass so I’m not put out for a backup.

But everyone not being as lucky as myself was a big factor in me deciding to spread my experience around the internet as far as I can. I run a business in 47 countries on 5 continents. I know it would spread like wildfire if someone in my company screwed up this bad.

Maybe tomorrow you can join the crusade and I’ll see if my marketing guys can start trending #fixitvortex and get everyone in this situation some attention hahaha.


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[2five7]

Yeah. And I’m feeling like this guy today....

Pretty sure my tombstone will read “Beware the company that pushes warranty above product quality, chances are you’ll need it and need it a lot” as I say it so often.

In fact for all intents and purposes of this conversation - let’s say that’s what my Tat says.

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"The blade glows blue when Orcs are near"?

 

[Napperm4]

"The blade glows blue when Orcs are near"?

Unsure. But my face glows red when Vortex comes up


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[gr8fuldoug]

Just my opinion, these days when you can purchase a Meopta Meopro for the same street price as a Vortex Viper HD & a Meopta MeoStar for the same street price as a Razor HD why would you consider a Vortex?
For that matter in a 15x56 you have, in the same price range, the Vortex Kaibab the Meopta MeoStar and the Steiner HX. Again, why would you opt for a Vortex when Steiner and Meopta are available in the same price range.
I get that companies like Meopta, Steiner and Kowa do not market their optics as well as Vortex, however, with the quality they offer they do not feel it a top priority to plaster their brand name everywhere.
Just my $.02

 

[svivian]

As someone who sells a lot of optics from a lot of brands over the last 6 years I definitely have noticed the quality control has gone down. I have and do still own a lot of vortex products. My razors are the Japanese models and are excellent, I have several viper scopes and have never sent them in even after dropping them. The rangerfinders are garbage, can't get a reading over 700 yards after sending it in. I think vortex is having trouble keeping up with the amount of optics they produce. Vortex is hands down the number one seller in terms of quantity. I understand that when an optic fails that is frustrating to a lot on here especially when most on here use superior optics and gear in general. Let's be honest most who talk optics on this forum are always on the top end. No one on here are reviewing vipers or diamnondbacks and if it is suggested it's always said save your money and buy better. Vortex isn't selling to you they are selling to the average joe who doesn't want to spend a lot. They don't care about it possibly failing because they can send it in. Just the same goes as if they broke it doing something dumb like we all have done. These guys are also not researching binos, they see them on Instagram and tv and that's all they need to be convinced. I don't think vortex makes bad optics I just don't think they are up to certain standards and that is an individual preference.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

Just my opinion, these days when you can purchase a ... Meopta MeoStar for the same street price as a Razor HD why would you consider a Vortex?

Respectfully Doug, it's because the ergonomics are awful on the MeoStar for any binocular you intend to handhold. If Meopta would come out with a better frame with the same glass at that price point then I would give you my credit card number tomorrow. I tried to like the Meostar but I'm not going to pay that much money for a pair of binos I can't stand to hold and that are flat out awkward to grab out of my bino harness. Just my $.02. Maybe you have enough pull to make that happen some day.

 

[Bear_Bryan]

Just my opinion, these days when you can purchase a Meopta Meopro for the same street price as a Vortex Viper HD & a Meopta MeoStar for the same street price as a Razor HD why would you consider a Vortex?
For that matter in a 15x56 you have, in the same price range, the Vortex Kaibab the Meopta MeoStar and the Steiner HX. Again, why would you opt for a Vortex when Steiner and Meopta are available in the same price range.
I get that companies like Meopta, Steiner and Kowa do not market their optics as well as Vortex, however, with the quality they offer they do not feel it a top priority to plaster their brand name everywhere.
Just my $.02

Vortex experticity discount.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Respectfully Doug, it's because the ergonomics are awful on the MeoStar for any binocular you intend to handhold. If Meopta would come out with a better frame with the same glass at that price point then I would give you my credit card number tomorrow. I tried to like the Meostar but I'm not going to pay that much money for a pair of binos I can't stand to hold and that are flat out awkward to grab out of my bino harness. Just my $.02. Maybe you have enough pull to make that happen some day.

I am passing this along to the powers that be at Meopta after I hit reply. Thanks for the input

 

[wannakillabigbull]

I am passing this along to the powers that be at Meopta after I hit reply. Thanks for the input

Thanks Doug! It's great that us Roksliders have a resource like you that can get our feedback to the right people.

 

[BrushyHillGuide]

Vortex experticity discount.

Is not supposed to be talked about.


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[Napperm4]

Just my opinion, these days when you can purchase a Meopta Meopro for the same street price as a Vortex Viper HD & a Meopta MeoStar for the same street price as a Razor HD why would you consider a Vortex?
For that matter in a 15x56 you have, in the same price range, the Vortex Kaibab the Meopta MeoStar and the Steiner HX. Again, why would you opt for a Vortex when Steiner and Meopta are available in the same price range.
I get that companies like Meopta, Steiner and Kowa do not market their optics as well as Vortex, however, with the quality they offer they do not feel it a top priority to plaster their brand name everywhere.
Just my $.02

Nice to hear from someone way more experienced in optics.

In my case I have never considered vortex before this. With my business background I know how little is invested in their materials to meet margins and can assume how much money has to be budgeted every year just for warranty fulfillment. It’s a terrible model really. I think it was a large reason that other retailers like rei moved away from no fault lifetime guarantee.

However being in Canada the options here are seriously limited in terms of what retailers carry for hands on trials. Not a single retail store I have found carries meopta, cabelas doesn’t stock the euro series here and a very limited selection for other brands of optics. Our sole Kowa dealer in a city of 1.2 million recently closed their doors also.

While I’m a big proponent of online retail shipping and duties are heavy. There are also a lot of warranty restrictions and issues getting optics back and forth across borders for service and more than once I have had to argue customs fees on the value of repairs.

Add the brutal exchange on top of that and we end up paying a lot of extras that aren’t refundable if I order something online to try out and decide to send back.

These kinds of things make it increasingly difficult for us canucks. Further to the point there are unconfirmed rumours that soon sporting optics (binos and spotters) and will soon also be categorized under the new legislation that came into effect for rifle scopes recently.

Lastly - the only reason I picked up the vipers was that I was impressed with how well the 10x42 was on bang for the buck. My Dad has a pair of vultures that by all accounts aren’t horrible.

I never expected these things to compete with my swaro or Kowa glass. I knowingly purchased a lower quality optic in sacrifice for their warranty. In my case they met 0/2 of what they advertise. The optic is sub par for class - not nearly as good as the lower mag glass in the same model, I had issues with focus from the start and their saving grace of “the best warranty in the biz” was a gross let down. It’s embarrassing for an “optics” company to service their product in such a way that they are returned in worse shape.

I ended up with these as a last minute decision at the start of elk season last year because I wanted to try some 15x to see if the magnification is something I wanted to invest in to fill a gap between my 10’s and my spotters. Originally I was going to get a pair of SLC HD’s right out of the gate, but due to availability, import duties, exchange rate and sales taxes - my options were really limited on my timeline.

I made a choice I knew I wasn’t happy with and never intended these to be a forever purchase. The plan was try them out, sell them off or hand them down to one of my brothers and get a pair of real glass if I liked the performance of the higher magnification.

The whole experience hasn’t been a total loss and I’m sure they’ll do whatever they can to make it right. The warranty rep was very apologetic, understanding and friendly when I called in to report what happened. They sent me a prepaid shipping label within minutes and asked me to return the binos for inspection and told me they’d waive the cue when they arrive. They offered me a free t shirt and some stickers for my troubles.

My gripe is that this company failed to deliver on the 2 things they advertise...

1 - a premium product (I’m aware and state that I consider these entry level glass at best but those are their words verbatim)

2 - an exceptional warranty service. I think the pics speak for themselves. I’ve also had experience with other optics companies warranties and the have been nothing short of awesome.

I’m a very lucky person in that I have a lot of premium glass sitting around and realistically can buy whatever I want to.

That said, I know I’m not the majority and have spent 25 years of my hunting career upgrading my way from $20 tasco and bushnell Walmart specials to where I am today.

I see, not so much on Rokslide, but a lot of forums and the outdoor shops pushing this brand on people where their price point is maxed out at a certain level. For a lot of people something like this is a once in a lifetime purchase. It’s those people I want to help make aware that there are better options out there. If this was to happen to someone a few days before a 10k guided hunt it would be devastating and could ruin their hunt.

While I sympathize that every company, including my own, can have issues and isn’t 100% perfect, as that is impossible, I’m looking to share my personal experience where a company didn’t live up to its own standards on their key business objectives and that money is much better spent as you point out. I would rather have spent that money on something where more of the built in cost goes to higher quality materials, R&D and a better end product than an assembly company where I am subsidizing an otherwise unsustainable warranty program not only for my own purchase but for every product ever sold across their entire product line.


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[Bear_Bryan]

Is not supposed to be talked about.


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I didn’t give any specifics.

 

[Murdy]

Vortex will take care of you directly if you send in a copy of your DD214

 

[Napperm4]

As someone who sells a lot of optics from a lot of brands over the last 6 years I definitely have noticed the quality control has gone down. I have and do still own a lot of vortex products. My razors are the Japanese models and are excellent, I have several viper scopes and have never sent them in even after dropping them. The rangerfinders are garbage, can't get a reading over 700 yards after sending it in. I think vortex is having trouble keeping up with the amount of optics they produce. Vortex is hands down the number one seller in terms of quantity. I understand that when an optic fails that is frustrating to a lot on here especially when most on here use superior optics and gear in general. Let's be honest most who talk optics on this forum are always on the top end. No one on here are reviewing vipers or diamnondbacks and if it is suggested it's always said save your money and buy better. Vortex isn't selling to you they are selling to the average joe who doesn't want to spend a lot. They don't care about it possibly failing because they can send it in. Just the same goes as if they broke it doing something dumb like we all have done. These guys are also not researching binos, they see them on Instagram and tv and that's all they need to be convinced. I don't think vortex makes bad optics I just don't think they are up to certain standards and that is an individual preference.

Exactly. They cater to the everyman. But a lot of brands do and I think there are much better options out there in the same price points no matter which level of optic you are buying from them.

REI is another company that had the no fault warranty across all products. They chose to move away from that model partly because of abuse and largely because of the hit on their bottom line.

No company is in business to make friends. They exist to make money.

I’ve never been a fan of vortex because they are a grossly overpriced item due to their business model.

On top of normal business costs:

Material
Machining
Labour
Wages
Infrastructure
Logistics
Sales/Ads/Marketing
R&D
Profit

They have to allocate a huge amount of their wholesale or retail pricing into a contingency fund to warranty everything they have ever sold across their entire line up forever.

Now while every company that offers any warranty will have a contingency budget the vortex model requires the largest percentage. On top of that they seem to be having growing pains as the QC has notably slipped over the years.

To maintain profit they either have to raise prices ( like the “new line” of razor spotters with no real improvement and likely the newly released viper spotters).

The next option is to cut costs of materials and labor or general overhead. I can say in my company on our manufacturing side the main cost control is reducing hard material costs within the restraints of our quality program. Meaning we only use western courses materials made to our spec but it’s no easy task. Any time we move our supply chain it causes other issues that we have to resolve during our qc.

Taking all of that into account along with the fact that as to the best of my knowledge vortex doesn’t actually make anything (they are a marketing company that assembles components) my opinion has become that in the same price point there are better options out there.

While they don’t make “bad glass” a number of companies out there can allocate the money used to finance the warranty for sourcing better materials, higher skilled labor and doing actual in house R&D and manufacturing while maintaining the same healthy profit margins.

The downfall of vortex could be exactly as you stated. They have captured a large market share and continue to grow. That means more products in the market that require warranty.

Without an adjustment to pricing or a marked reduction of warranty claims their costs may continue to rise leading to further cuts or repackaging and higher prices to the consumer for the same or similar sub par quality for price class product.

I don’t think they are badly run and there should be a lot of people working behind the scenes to keep these things in check but I’m very curious to see how it plays out in the future. In my opinion they certainly don’t deserve the hype and cult following they get, but I’m a bit jaded in my opinion of their business model. Not my style and I get that’s a personal opinion as someone who markets the quality of our products at a premium price point with a proven track record to be better than our competitors.


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[gr8fuldoug]

Thanks Doug! It's great that us Roksliders have a resource like you that can get our feedback to the right people.

My pleasure, that's one of the many things we are here for

 

[KurtR]

Just my opinion, these days when you can purchase a Meopta Meopro for the same street price as a Vortex Viper HD & a Meopta MeoStar for the same street price as a Razor HD why would you consider a Vortex?
For that matter in a 15x56 you have, in the same price range, the Vortex Kaibab the Meopta MeoStar and the Steiner HX. Again, why would you opt for a Vortex when Steiner and Meopta are available in the same price range.
I get that companies like Meopta, Steiner and Kowa do not market their optics as well as Vortex, however, with the quality they offer they do not feel it a top priority to plaster their brand name everywhere.
Just my $.02

What has changed in the last 5 years? When I bought my razor spotter from you that's not what was said then.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

What has changed in the last 5 years? When I bought my razor spotter from you that's not what was said then.

In the past 5 years many things have changed.

1st off, as stated in my post "when you can purchase a Meopta Meopro for the same street price as a Vortex Viper HD & a Meopta MeoStar for the same street price as a Razor HD why would you consider a Vortex?
For that matter in a 15x56 you have, in the same price range, the Vortex Kaibab the Meopta MeoStar and the Steiner HX. Again, why would you opt for a Vortex when Steiner and Meopta are available in the same price range."

Meopta lowered the price of their MeoPro 10x42 binocular from $799.99 to only $499.99 (same street prices as a Vortex Viper HD) and lowered their street price of their MeoStar lines from around $1300.00 to below $1000.00 for all sizes 10x42 and lower. They did not change their units. There is a new head of Sports Optics that wants Meopta to get the recognition that they deserve and he has done this to grab market share and get their products in peoples hands.
During the past year Vortex has moved production of their Razor binocular line from Japan to China. There have been many posts about Vortex product failure and excessive warranty posts of late.

Prices have narrowed as Vortex has risen their prices gradually through the years while other companies have lowered theirs.

Athlon came on the scene a couple of years ago paying a great compliment to Vortex, they basically copied their offerings, however, they have done so at 20-40% lower prices and with greater quality control. Athlon has since expanded upon their offerings and have done so by adding features folks have been asking for. All the while keeping their prices way lower then the competition.

 

[Rhansen]

Just my opinion, these days when you can purchase a Meopta Meopro for the same street price as a Vortex Viper HD & a Meopta MeoStar for the same street price as a Razor HD why would you consider a Vortex?
For that matter in a 15x56 you have, in the same price range, the Vortex Kaibab the Meopta MeoStar and the Steiner HX. Again, why would you opt for a Vortex when Steiner and Meopta are available in the same price range.
I get that companies like Meopta, Steiner and Kowa do not market their optics as well as Vortex, however, with the quality they offer they do not feel it a top priority to plaster their brand name everywhere.
Just my $.02

The problem with companies like Meopta is they do not have a factory in the US. So if you damage your Binos (and it’s your fault)Then you might as well buy a new pair because it’s not worth shipping them to the Czech republic to have them fixed.Even for small issues like scratched lens

 

[dotman]

The problem with companies like Meopta is they do not have a factory in the US. So if you damage your Binos (and it’s your fault)Then you might as well buy a new pair because it’s not worth shipping them to the Czech republic to have them fixed.Even for small issues like scratched lens

Meopta USA introduces the new MeoPro HD binocular series. This next generation MeoPro binocular line features advanced fluoride HD optics and is available in 8x32, 10x32, 8x42 and 10x42 models.

Assembled in the U.S. at Meopta’s Long Island, NY facility, the new MeoPro series has an updated look and feel. These binoculars are lightweight, extremely durable and offer a brilliant viewing experience. Fluoride HD objective lenses and MeoBright™ ion-assisted multi-coatings deliver incredible clarity, superior color fidelity and edge-to-edge sharpness while eliminating chromatic aberration in the most challenging viewing conditions. A totally redesigned, lightweight magnesium chassis is built to withstand the rugged conditions of the field and, like all Meopta binoculars, the MeoPro HDs are nitrogen purged and fully sealed for fog-proof, water-proof and shock-proof performance, year after year.

“Our newly designed optical system, combined with SCHOTT fluoride HD glass and improved ergonomics, makes our new MeoPro HD binocular an exceptional performer,” said Reinhard Seipp, general manager and COO of Meopta USA. “In high-contrast lighting situations, chromatic aberrations are completely suppressed while resolution and clarity are maximized. This new MeoPro HD series offers top level HD performance to hunters looking for a true value.”
The external lenses of MeoPro HD are also treated with Meopta’s proprietary MeoShield™ abrasion-resistant coating which meets military specifications for durability and surface hardness. Twist-up eye cups feature four click-stop positions to accommodate users with or without eyeglasses and a right side ocular diopter control provides +/- 3 D adjustment for simple individual optical tuning.
All MeoPro HD binoculars work seamlessly with Meopta’s MeoPix iScoping Adapters which are available for the iPhone 4/4S and 5/5S models and Samsung Galaxy S4.