Utah muzzleloader no scope law

[Papi04]

I’ve been hearing a lot about the new proposed law banning scopes on muzzleloader i heard recently that it might not go threw but wanted to hear others thoughts on it

 

[butcherboy]

I think it would be a good thing. They did it here in NM and this was the first year. New muzzleloaders with a scope are almost like shooting a single shot rifle. I think that one reason to shoot a muzzie is for the extra challenge compared to a rifle. Just like going from a muzzie to a bow. I don’t believe in long range shots with a bow either.

 

[Papi04]

I think it would be a good thing. They did it here in NM and this was the first year. New muzzleloaders with a scope are almost like shooting a single shot rifle. I think that one reason to shoot a muzzie is for the extra challenge compared to a rifle. Just like going from a muzzie to a bow. I don’t believe in long range shots with a bow either.

Yes, especially with some new muzzleloaders that claim they can be lethal the same distance as a modern rifle. I am also on the side removing them as the reason I hunt muzzleloader is for the extra challenge, and feel that with scopes & these modern muzzleloaders have made it sort of a pay to win in the sense the more you are able to pay the farther your bullet goes but I guess that also depends on the shooter I think it would be truly better for everyone

 

[MuleyFever]

Utah Muzzleloader Proposed Changes

I'd rather have the opportunity to hunt more often with less effective tools than hunt every 5 years with a damn scope. Regular rifle and archery seasons should have weapon restrictions as well. If this is all considered too radical or infringing on rights, we might as well allow night...

rokslide.com

 

[Papi04]

Utah Muzzleloader Proposed Changes

I'd rather have the opportunity to hunt more often with less effective tools than hunt every 5 years with a damn scope. Regular rifle and archery seasons should have weapon restrictions as well. If this is all considered too radical or infringing on rights, we might as well allow night...

rokslide.com

Thank you

 

[Bluefish]

Sounded like part of the reason was to align with neighboring states, ie Colorado which is already irons only. While I like using a scope, if it made it easier to get a tag, I am all for irons only.

 

[Rich M]

Imagine if they went straight wall cartridges for deer/elk/etc. in order to stem the tide of long range shooting.

Would piss a lot of people off but also would effectively reduce shot distances to inside roughly 400 yards and return hunting to hunting again, as opposed to long range shooting.

Could reduce the shot distance even more by banning scopes from all hunting rifles. All guns would wear adjustable peeps.

 

[Live_weighT34]

I’m in favor of it, the jump in hunters when Utah allowed the variable power scopes on the muzzleloader hunts was drastic and I know several guys that had killed deer and elk 500+ yards and not always with one or two well placed shots.

With a little extra practice you can shoot very well with open sights and it keeps the fair chase aspect alive. With the quality of even cheap guns, bullets, sight options, powders & ignition systems we can be efficient and lethal. What I don’t want to happen is in 5-6 years utah changes the law again. My biggest issue is our DNR keeps flip flopping on regulations and it can be frustrating.

 

[Touchdown88]

I'm all for it. We've gotten more efficient at killing animals while the number of hunters is increasing.

 

[Huntnnw]

how every state should be! its stupid the whole point of primitive weapon seasons. Pretty much hunting with single shot rifles

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

I hope it passes along with a bunch of other proposals.

 

[mfllood3800]

The no scope/muzzle loader is the right decision. Though it will flood the other pools of archery/rifle tags. It has potential to increase wounded animals as well. Most folks don't practice much for muzzle loader as it was, now it has potential to increase unrecovered animal percentages.

The other proposals like 4 pt or better have been tried in Utah already. There's tons of data from Western States that this is not the most effective way to increase herd populations. The data does reveal it increases inferior genetics as well as incorrect animals shot, as well as a decrease in herd numbers eventually.
This promotes killing immature 4 pointers, leaving the forkies/3 pointers left to breed.

The recurve only law on the Dutton sounds fishy to me. The late start of the season does as well. Both these proposals should effectively drop the number of successful hunts. This doesn't mean more animals make it thru, but it certainly means an increase to wounded animals, as well as incorrect animals killed.
Knowing Utah and the States greed for $$ it sure looks like they have figured out how to still sell enough tags, with our current diminished herd numbers, and still bring in those needed dollars, while decreasing the % of successful hunts.

The problem I have with most of the proposals are there's already sufficient data showing some of these ideas don't accomplish what they say they are after, and the State knows this, yet, will repeat this failed process. . What they do accomplish is keeping the money flowing. The only way to help the herds, is less tags. But even then, we have a huge poaching problem here since the Gov broke up a City full of traditional cultural lifestyles, and many of those residents fled to our small towns. They live off the land and Gov programs, with little regard to the laws.

Is the herd reduction really caused by winter kill, summer drought ? No doubt in Utah it has some effect.
But is mismanagement by the State, poaching, excessive predators in the state, too many cow tags depleting an elk herd's chance to replenish, and a 9 day muzzle loader season (way too long with modern technology) really the underlying problem?

 

[Dr.Spaniel]

This law should be in every state. Want to shoot with a scope, get a center fire rifle. I’m also confused about the idea of a break open muzzleloader.

 

[rcook10]

As far as i’m concerned if it doesn’t have iron sights or an external lock and shoot a patched ball it shouldn’t be considered a muzzle loader. Primitive seasons should be PRIMITIVE.

 

[Bluefish]

This law should be in every state. Want to shoot with a scope, get a center fire rifle. I’m also confused about the idea of a break open muzzleloader.

Breaks open to get to the primer. Also allows removal of the breech for cleaning. Really handy for moving around via atv. Can just break open, remove primer and it’s “unloaded”. Was also handy when I used old powder that wouldn’t go off. Was able to remove the breach, pour out powder, then push out the bullet.
got to handle a rem 700 ML that uses a 50 cal case for powder And loads from the muzzle. Really nice rifle, but imho not the intent of a ML.

 

[roadrunner]

Imagine if they went straight wall cartridges for deer/elk/etc. in order to stem the tide of long range shooting.

Would piss a lot of people off but also would effectively reduce shot distances to inside roughly 400 yards and return hunting to hunting again, as opposed to long range shooting.

Could reduce the shot distance even more by banning scopes from all hunting rifles. All guns would wear adjustable peeps.

But if you can't physically see the target area, an adjustable peep is pointless.

Sure, you can see the silhouette of a deer, an antelope, and certainly an elk, but can you see the target vital area well enough to know you're dead center where you need to be mid body and right behind the shoulder? What are the chances of being off by 6 inches up or down at 400 yds?

Pretty high I would think.

 

[Wrench]

I developed a wedge that works as a gauge block to hit the elevations at various ranges. I have proven it to 300 many times. I have an adjustable peep. The peep helps A LOT but requires quite a bit of light to work to potential.

From 300 out trajectory is getting close to a falling star and while doable....it's not a fast setup.

 

[Rich M]

But if you can't physically see the target area, an adjustable peep is pointless.

Sure, you can see the silhouette of a deer, an antelope, and certainly an elk, but can you see the target vital area well enough to know you're dead center where you need to be mid body and right behind the shoulder? What are the chances of being off by 6 inches up or down at 400 yds?

Pretty high I would think.

The 400 yard reference was related to the straight wall cartridges & scopes in my mind.

Peep & such, 200 would be my max, mainly due to my vision. When I was a youth, could see a lot better.