Upgrade Rifle Scope or New Spotting Scope

[UCFJed]

Hi everyone,

I posted a few weeks ago about an upcoming mule deer hunt in WY, where Robbie and others emphasized the importance of having a spotting scope.

Now, I'm deciding between upgrading my riflescope or buying a spotting scope. If I don’t get the spotting scope, I'll rent one.

My setup is a Savage 110 in 30-06 with a Nikon Monarch 3 4-16X50 BDC reticle. It's great for whitetails, but I’m worried about its precision at longer ranges and making windage adjustments on the fly.

My budget is $1000-$1500, and I get military discounts.

I'm not looking to debate brands, but I'm considering the Razor HD LHT 4.5-22X50 FFP as a replacement for the Nikon. Eventually, I'll upgrade the rifle, but for this season, I’ll stick with what I know. For spotting scopes, I’m thinking of one of the Razor HDs, as I love their binos.

Thoughts?

 

[Kyguy]

Is the rifle doing something or acting funny that you suspect the scope? If its not, unless you have considerable time before the hunt, I wouldn't change the scope. It's always best to use what you're very familiar with, especially if you've used it for some time. I wouldn't worry about upgrading the rifle either, as long you can shoot it well. Buy the spotting scope.

 

[Macintosh]

… I’m worried about its precision at longer ranges and making windage adjustments on the fly…

Have you practiced at longer ranges and made wind calls with it? It’s not clear from what you wrote if you arent happy with your performance using the scope at longer range, or if you just dont know how it will perform because you havent shot it at longer range. If you arent already sure exactly what you are capable of with the scope at various longer ranges, that would be my #1 priority before the trip, regardless of what scope I had. If you’ve already done that then maybe let folks know how it went and what you are looking for and you will likely get better advice. If you are new to shooting at longer ranges check out the thlr youtube channel, its a norwegian guy and its pretty watchable, but he has some great techniques for shooting 2fp scopes at longer range. I dont know your scope but his info and techniques might help you decide if a new scope will get you what you need, or if its just practice thats needed, etc.

 

[sndmn11]

Sell the Nikon for $150, buy SWFA 10x side focus, buy Maven S3. I think that hits the top budget number.

 

[jimh406]

A lot of people recommend holding for wind and dialing for distance. Or, you can simply get closer where wind won't be as much as of issue. I think 16x is plenty for any reasonable length shot.

With clear binoculars, you should be able to spot game pretty well. Sure, you may not be able to tell exactly how big the rack is, but you should have a pretty good idea.

The 13-39 or 22-48 Razor HDs are in the price range you are looking at and aren't that heavy.

 

[Kurts86]

Renting a spotting scope is a good idea period. They universally suck until you spend $2k or so and they are needed quite infrequently. Also the ideal size varies a lot hunt to hunt. They are one of the last pieces of gear to spend big on in my mind unless you are counting sheep rings or trying to tell a 170 from a 180” deer. The vortex razor is not a great spotting scope, its glass clarity leaves too much gap to true alpha glass and they are very heavy for their size. I had one for 2 seasons and sold it for those reasons.

Rifle scopes are only behind 10x binoculars as something to prioritize gear $$$ on in my mind. $1000-$1500 gets you a lot of great scopes like a Nightforce SHV, Maven RS1.2, trijicon Credo/tenmile.

A Vortex LHT is probably the worst scope to spend $1000-$1500 on. A company having good binoculars and good rifle scopes isn’t the same thing. I love Swarovski Binoculars but their rifle scopes I do not. Binoculars are about optical quality and Riflescopes are about being a reliable tracking and zero retaining device. I would use vortex razor binoculars without issue but their scope I would not at this point. If I were to get a razor spotting scope I’d get the grey 1st gen to save weight and have a better focus wheel with the same optical qualities.

 

[Shortschaf]

Buy a riflescope and beg/borrow/steal/rent a spotter for the mule hunt

riflescope could make or break every hunt you do

Spotting scope could make or break one or two hunts ever. Maybe

 

[rcb2000]

I rented a Swarovski spotter from @Rent Outdoor Gear on a mule deer hunt, amazing customer service and you get to use premium gear for a very reasonable price.

 

[UCFJed]

Renting a spotting scope is a good idea period. They universally suck until you spend $2k or so and they are needed quite infrequently. Also the ideal size varies a lot hunt to hunt. They are one of the last pieces of gear to spend big on in my mind unless you are counting sheep rings or trying to tell a 170 from a 180” deer. The vortex razor is not a great spotting scope, its glass clarity leaves too much gap to true alpha glass and they are very heavy for their size. I had one for 2 seasons and sold it for those reasons.

Rifle scopes are only behind 10x binoculars as something to prioritize gear $$$ on in my mind. $1000-$1500 gets you a lot of great scopes like a Nightforce SHV, Maven RS1.2, trijicon Credo/tenmile.

A Vortex LHT is probably the worst scope to spend $1000-$1500 on. A company having good binoculars and good rifle scopes isn’t the same thing. I love Swarovski Binoculars but their rifle scopes I do not. Binoculars are about optical quality and Riflescopes are about being a reliable tracking and zero retaining device. I would use vortex razor binoculars without issue but their scope I would not at this point. If I were to get a razor spotting scope I’d get the grey 1st gen to save weight and have a better focus wheel with the same optical qualities.

Great insights, thank you!


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[Koda_]

My setup is a Savage 110 in 30-06 with a Nikon Monarch 3 4-16X50 BDC reticle. It's great for whitetails, but I’m worried about its precision at longer ranges and making windage adjustments on the fly.

Whats wrong with the Nikon and how far out do you plan or would like to shoot?

 

[UCFJed]

Whats wrong with the Nikon and how far out do you plan or would like to shoot?

Nothing is wrong with it, I was shooting quarters at 100y last weekend. My concern is that the BDC reticle isn’t exact enough at the 300ish yards that I want to be comfortable shooting at.

When I’ve pushed to 200y by me it’s performed well, but I worry the wind will be a bigger factor in the mountains than where I’m practicing.


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[Koda_]

Nothing is wrong with it, I was shooting quarters at 100y last weekend. My concern is that the BDC reticle isn’t exact enough at the 300ish yards that I want to be comfortable shooting at.

I had to look it up, but if you have a BDC reticle Id sell the Nikon, and get a similar or better scope with an external elevation dial. I'm not a fan of BDC reticles as I don't fully trust they are calibrated to what I get with my ammo and rifle etc. If your reticle is what I pasted below definitely get a new scope.
If your not shooting/hunting farther than 300yds then you should be ok with wind as long as its not blasting more than 10mph you should be under 3/4ish inches left or right.

 

[Marble]

Great insights, thank you!


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With military discounts, you can also look at nightforce. Go to their website and search around for the info.

In your situation, I would leave my rifle scope alone and rent a spotter. If this is your first trip, there will be a lot going on to learn. Save your pennies.

After the season, evaluate what you needed. If you are still stuck on glass, I would ensure my binos were the best I could afford. My preference is swaros. And then worry about a spotter.

You may leave this hunt and realize there is a lot of gear you want and optics may not be the first on your list.

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[RockAndSage]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any mention of your binos - and that should be your absolute top priority in terms of quality.

Out west you're going to spend the most time behind your binos in most places - the better the glass, the longer you can stay on those optics and hunt, before fatigue and eye-strain start setting in. Keep in mind that the guys spending days at a time behind their spotters are often being very choosy with their bucks - they're often very accomplished and are at a level of mule deer hunting experience where they're all about quality, not just turning up a nice 3 or 4 point. And they still start their glassing with binos - 8s or 10s usually.

It's so important that if I was somehow forced into a situation where I had to feed my family but was allowed exactly one optic - scope, binos, or spotter - I'd choose binos in a heartbeat and just run iron sights. It's that big of a deal in hunting up mule deer.

If your rifle scope is good enough to have you out shooting quarters at a hundred yards, you're good to go - focus on good binos, and rent the spotter as someone else suggested. Especially if you don't plan on hunting western big game every year, or even every other year. But good binos are incredibly useful in lots of other ways too.

 

[Mojave]

I used to get military discounts, but for some reason Navy retirees are now getting the SHAFT from most of the outfits that used to offer discounts.

That is a great Vortex to set up on.

Many times I have used my rifle scope to verify the quality of an animal after I have him identified.

 

[Macintosh]

do you have a rangefinder?

 

[UCFJed]

Great points and advice everyone, thank you.

I have a Vortex Razor HD 10x50 for my binos and a Vortex Ranger 1300 as my rangefinder. Both have worked well thus far for me, and I haven't found an immediate need to upgrade either of them. I'll be (hopefully) going in southern WY in the mountains with a buddy who will be renting binos.

My chief concern is the lack of precision with the BDC reticle. Transparently that's what got me interested in the Razor LHT (though the reviews on losing zero after a small drop is very concerning). I also anticipate that the elevation and windage knobs on this scope could be challenging to manage in the field.

 

[Koda_]

I wouldnt trust that reticle either.
I still side with getting a new scope. Sell the Nikon to help offset the cost.

 

[Kurts86]

If you only plan to shoot out to 300 yards use a 200 yard zero or maximum point blank zero. Your wind holds will just be the left or right side of the vitals at 300 yards with a full value 10 mph Wind.

I’d still get a better scope but there seems to be a lack of training/experience shooting at western distances that similarly needs development too.

 

[Kyguy]

Have you verified that your scope won't track correctly? You're very concerned about the ability to dial elevation and windage, but does anyone really dial windage for hunting? No one that I know. As for the precision of the reticle, print out the white sheet to a size that fits on your stock, and tape it on. You've got a rangefinder, Your BDC starts out in 40 yd increments and by the time you get to 485, it's what, 20 yd increments? Then it's point and shoot to 485. It can't get much simpler than that. Remember, you're not shooting for points on a 1" bullseye. You just need to put a bullet in a 10" or 12" circle.

Honestly, it sounds like you're looking for problems that you don't currently have as an excuse to buy a new scope, a reason to justify it to yourself and you want us to justify it for you. If you WANT a new scope, just buy it. But you don't NEED a new scope to do what you want to do, as long as you know that your scope is good.