Updated Wyoming Range Mule Deer Mortality Article - June 13, 2023

[voltage]

Perhaps deer don’t like wearing collars

 

[Wyoguy51]

The 80% estimate was in an article I believe in Cowboy State Daily. Brian Nesvik (G&F Director) was quoted in the article saying mortality could be as high as 80%. However, this graph of the collared deer numbers was sent to me by the biologist.

I also shed hunted in the region. I found plenty of dead deer and antelope. I will say that without close inspection of the carcasses, I mistook a few of the dead deer for antelope because the hair had faded to an antelope-like white. Dead antelope were everywhere; some still in the road.

 

[mxgust]

The 80% estimate was in an article I believe in Cowboy State Daily. Brian Nesvik (G&F Director) was quoted in the article saying mortality could be as high as 80%. However, this graph of the collared deer numbers was sent to me by the biologist.

I also shed hunted in the region. I found plenty of dead deer and antelope. I will say that without close inspection of the carcasses, I mistook a few of the dead deer for antelope because the hair had faded to an antelope-like white. Dead antelope were everywhere; some still in the road.

That’s great info thank you

 

[snowymtnwolf]

I just got back from trip to Yellowstone and throughout Wyoming. I scouted my past hunting spots in Region G + H and it’s as green as can be. Still a decent amount of snow way up top too.

Saw about usual elk numbers but was surprised how little deer I saw. Maybe I missed the deer but definitely didn’t see the normal amount I usually see.

Was actually shocked at the amount of antelope I saw all over Wyoming with everything I have read. And even saw a set of twin baby antelope running circles around their mom which tickled me and the kids loved seeing.

Was showery and a couple good days of rain up in Yellowstone last weekend. Again - very green.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wyobigbuckhunter]

I just got back from trip to Yellowstone and throughout Wyoming. I scouted my past hunting spots in Region G + H and it’s as green as can be. Still a decent amount of snow way up top too.

Saw about usual elk numbers but was surprised how little deer I saw. Maybe I missed the deer but definitely didn’t see the normal amount I usually see.

Was actually shocked at the amount of antelope I saw all over Wyoming with everything I have read. And even saw a set of twin baby antelope running circles around their mom which tickled me and the kids loved seeing.

Was showery and a couple good days of rain up in Yellowstone last weekend. Again - very green.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the info!

 

[bgipson]

Haven't made a run to the high country yet but definitely not seeing the deer in the low country that I normally see during my training hikes. Really hope things aren't as dim as they're portrayed but it's hard to know. I do have to question how well a deer can respond to being run down by a chopper, netted, tackled and collared, then released in the middle of winter. I would imagine a deer that didn't withstand this experience may have higher survival odds but without the collar it's not able to be known.

 

[mxgust]

Haven't made a run to the high country yet but definitely not seeing the deer in the low country that I normally see during my training hikes. Really hope things aren't as dim as they're portrayed but it's hard to know. I do have to question how well a deer can respond to being run down by a chopper, netted, tackled and collared, then released in the middle of winter. I would imagine a deer that didn't withstand this experience may have higher survival odds but without the collar it's not able to be known.

Could be true, but you’re assuming all these deer were collared this year. Some of those deer wear collars for a long time. The migration initiative has had individual deer collared for multiple year stretches. I’m sure this is the same, too hard to re-collar all new deer every year and from a research perspective you wouldn’t get the complete picture doing that. I think they wear them until either the deer dies or the collar does. Plus, some of those fawns are being collared right after birth which isn’t winter

 

[Buglebrush]

Here's hoping they shut down deer season for this year, and everyone goes wide open trying to kill predators!

 

[wyobigbuckhunter]

Haven't made a run to the high country yet but definitely not seeing the deer in the low country that I normally see during my training hikes. Really hope things aren't as dim as they're portrayed but it's hard to know. I do have to question how well a deer can respond to being run down by a chopper, netted, tackled and collared, then released in the middle of winter. I would imagine a deer that didn't withstand this experience may have higher survival odds but without the collar it's not able to be known.

I've been involved and have volunteered with several of the collar studies for mule deer. The G&F and other organizations go to great lengths for each animal's safety and follow strict science driven protocols.
In my personal experience, I have only seen measures employed once due to an animal being over stressed. This animal was only borderline per the protocol, but measures were employed anyway and the concern was resolved immediately. After seeing this process first hand, I think that the animals may be stressed a little more than they would just normally being on the landscape, but aren't stressed to the point of having any adverse effects. I also believe that even if this were the case the information gained is well worth the slight risk.

 

[voltage]

I can confirm that I would be stressed as f*ck if an alien netted me and threw a permanent collar on me.

 

[ElGuapo]

I can confirm that I would be stressed as f*ck if an alien netted me and threw a permanent collar on me.

Yea, this is interesting. I wonder if Collared deer are more likely to die from stress in a winter??

 

[wyobigbuckhunter]

I can confirm that I would be stressed as f*ck if an alien netted me and threw a permanent collar on me.

I probably would be freaked out as well. To be fair, I was not there when they netted each individual animal and I would assume that this is when the animals would become most stressed. My experience came from when they arrived to us (the ground team) by helicopter. I remember being surprised at how calm each of the animals were when they arrived. It was a vastly different experience as compared to doctoring and branding cattle that I have grown up with. I even asked if they were sedated and I was told that they were not.

I do know that most of these animals are captured multiple times each year and have been their entire lives. Maybe exposure makes it a little less stressful? I'm not sure, but I don't think so because I was part of the team that collared bucks in the Wyoming range the first time. The bucks arrived as calm as the does and I know that it was their first time being captured. I do know that with as thorough as the researchers and biologists were in the process, if there were any indications of an adverse effect they would have discovered it and I believe that they would have ceased the capturing. From what I saw, these professionals truly did care about each animal that was captured.

I would encourage any one to volunteer to help with a study of this kind if you ever get an opportunity. It gave me a whole new perspective after seeing the process first hand with boots on the ground experience.

 

[IdahoHntr]

I probably would be freaked out as well. To be fair, I was not there when they netted each individual animal and I would assume that this is when the animals would become most stressed. My experience came from when they arrived to us (the ground team) by helicopter. I remember being surprised at how calm each of the animals was when they arrived. It was a vastly different experience as compared to doctoring and branding cattle that I have grown up with. I even asked if they were sedated and I was told that they were not.

I do know that most of these animals are captured multiple times each year and have been their entire lives. Maybe exposure makes it a little less stressful? I'm not sure, but I don't think so because I was part of the team that collared bucks in the Wyoming range the first time. The bucks arrived as calm as the does and I know that it was their first time being captured. I do know that with as thorough as the researchers and biologists were in the process, if there were any indications of an adverse effect they would have discovered it and I believe that they would have ceased the capturing. From what I saw, these professionals truly did care about each animal that was captured.

I would encourage any one to volunteer to help with a study of this kind if you ever get an opportunity. It gave me a whole new perspective after seeing the process first hand with boots on the ground experience.

I haven't had the opportunity to be a part of this process, but from everything I have read, I truly do feel like stress is minimized to every extent possible, while still being able to get the data. I do believe wildlife professionals are trying to do what's best by the animals.

What I have always questioned is whether the data gained is actually representative of real life and "worth it". In a place where survival is often defined by the slimmest of margins, I can't help but think that wearing a collar is a major disadvantage. Especially in young deer.

In several years that have seen 100% fawn mortality in areas I hunt, according to collar data, I have seen a large amount of fawns roaming around during scouting and hunting season. Similarly, I've seen good survival in areas according to collar data, that just seem decimated during shed hunting trips. I just can't always make collar data line up with what I'm seeing in real life. I know mine is anecdotal evidence, but to be frank, in many ways, so is collar data. In these areas I have seen more fawns than were collared in that area, so my anecdotal data would seem to at least be just as valuable, if not more so? Not to mention that rarely is a statistically significant portion of the population across an entire landscape able to be collared, but yet the data is often treated like it is statistically significant. Judgement calls are made for a whole unit, zone, area, etc. based off this statistically insignificant sample, and that doesn't sit right with me.

I'm not saying collar data is a bad thing, but it's hard to actually study something and trust the data, when it is possible the very act of collecting the data is changing the result. Especially when there is no way to prove that collecting the data is not changing the result.

I've often thought about this, but rarely get the chance to voice it. What's other people thoughts? Are collars always worth it?

To be clear, I am not against collaring deer, but I do think the possibility that the data isn't actually reflecting real life is often glossed over. The use of collaring data to preserve migration corridors is, for example, something that I think is extremely useful. The use of collaring data to determine survival of a population is more where I wonder the accuracy..

 

[wyobigbuckhunter]

I haven't had the opportunity to be a part of this process, but from everything I have read, I truly do feel like stress is minimized to every extent possible, while still being able to get the data. I do believe wildlife professionals are trying to do what's best by the animals.

What I have always questioned is whether the data gained is actually representative of real life and "worth it". In a place where survival is often defined by the slimmest of margins, I can't help but think that wearing a collar is a major disadvantage. Especially in young deer.

In several years that have seen 100% fawn mortality in areas I hunt, according to collar data, I have seen a large amount of fawns roaming around during scouting and hunting season. Similarly, I've seen good survival in areas according to collar data, that just seem decimated during shed hunting trips. I just can't always make collar data line up with what I'm seeing in real life. I know mine is anecdotal evidence, but to be frank, in many ways, so is collar data. In these areas I have seen more fawns than were collared in that area, so my anecdotal data would seem to at least be just as valuable, if not more so? Not to mention that rarely is a statistically significant portion of the population across an entire landscape able to be collared, but yet the data is often treated like it is statistically significant. Judgement calls are made for a whole unit, zone, area, etc. based off this statistically insignificant sample, and that doesn't sit right with me.

I'm not saying collar data is a bad thing, but it's hard to actually study something and trust the data, when it is possible the very act of collecting the data is changing the result. Especially when there is no way to prove that collecting the data is not changing the result.

I've often thought about this, but rarely get the chance to voice it. What's other people thoughts? Are collars always worth it?

To be clear, I am not against collaring deer, but I do think the possibility that the data isn't actually reflecting real life is often glossed over. The use of collaring data to preserve migration corridors is, for example, something that I think is extremely useful. The use of collaring data to determine survival of a population is more where I wonder the accuracy..

Interesting. I will have to think about and look into this more. @robby denning this would be an interesting conversation to have with Dr. Kevin Monteith if you can ever get him on the Rokcast!

 

[robby denning]

Interesting. I will have to think about and look into this more. @robby denning this would be an interesting conversation to have with Dr. Kevin Monteith if you can ever get him on the Rokcast!

Yes!

 

[bgipson]

I read a study from Colorado some years ago that showed as little as 2 stressful interactions on the winter range could cause a doe to abort. I know that masking the deer after capture calms them really quickly but I highly doubt the deer stood there and waited for the chopper to rip up on them and deploy the net. I'd quantify it as a stressful incident myself.

All I'm questioning is how well the data from the collars actually reflects the population. I'll be up in a few of my hunt areas scouting in a couple weeks so I guess I'll get an idea how dismal it is.

 

[mxgust]

I read a study from Colorado some years ago that showed as little as 2 stressful interactions on the winter range could cause a doe to abort. I know that masking the deer after capture calms them really quickly but I highly doubt the deer stood there and waited for the chopper to rip up on them and deploy the net. I'd quantify it as a stressful incident myself.

All I'm questioning is how well the data from the collars actually reflects the population. I'll be up in a few of my hunt areas scouting in a couple weeks so I guess I'll get an idea how dismal it is.

The people doing this are professionals and know much more about it than any of us. I’m sure there is a biologist at fish and game that would be happy to answer your questions

 

[bgipson]

The people doing this are professionals and know much more about it than any of us. I’m sure there is a biologist at fish and game that would be happy to answer your questions

I went to college for Wildlife and Fisheries Sciences but in eastern SD so no muleys or migratory large mammals to speak of. I worked in the field a few years and did some radio collar work as well so I understand how it works, just never took part in winter capture. Also the number of collars vs population size seems like a small sample to draw large-scale conclusions from. I've seen hundreds of deer in different parts of this range but never a collar (I know this is anecdotal but friends who hunt other parts haven't either so our observed sample size is large).

Just seems like something that would be interesting for a deep dive public discussion with the biologists working on this. I listened to the podcast put out here a few weeks ago but bias wasn't really discussed.