Unknown Munitions Developed Loads Thread

[UM GM]

It's good to see a post on most any forum which speaks of tuning a load. To so many, it's unheard of since box ammo is good enough. And those that do reload, just load what a manual prints.

I have shot competition benchrest for 25+ years, and tuning is the name of the game. You can have a custom rifle built with the best of the best, but if it's out of tune, it can shoot as poor;y as a production rifle. But learn what it likes, and it makes your day!

I too am a competition BR shooter. I shoot 1000 yd BR. There is simply no shortcut to thorough tuning. If I do not make the extra effort and obsess over things like repeatability and ES when doing my initial tuning at short range (200 or 300 yds), then I won't be able to successfully tweak the load at 1000 the day before the match.

We all do things a little differently. While it's important to get input from others, it is critical to not talk yourself out of following your instincts--like I did at my last match.

When finding a load, whether for a hunting rifle or an LR BR rifle, we need to find as wide of a node as we can if we want it to repeat in varying conditions. For a hunting rifle at 100 yds, a load series that shoots 3/4, 5/8, 3/4 when testing powder charges or seating depths is much better that a load series that shoots 1", 1/4", 1". That 1/4" group will not likely repeat. If I had a nickel for every time I have seen that.......

So we need to resist the "wallet group" and look for consistency if we want to be successful when shooting a hunting or a competition rifle.

 

[4and1]

I have shot 1K, but the range closed and now the closest matches are 5-6 hours away. I do shoot some groundhog matches out to 800. I use a 30/284, that's the biggest I load for. A few years ago I won a Harrells break/tuner combo. I used a brake on it anyway, but I tried the brake/tuner. I was able to shrink my groups a noticeable amount with the tuner. Tuners do work!

 

[NevadaMike]

Well here we go. I have two rifles I want to get sent in. I am picking up a new Fierce 6.5 CM today I plan to take to my first long range class in the fall. I have been acquiring components and equipment for the last several months and it is all still sitting in the boxes. I just over think things and fail to start. I think in my case it is just better to use a professional. I look forward to reporting back here.

 

[UM GM]

Well here we go. I have two rifles I want to get sent in. I am picking up a new Fierce 6.5 CM today I plan to take to my first long range class in the fall. I have been acquiring components and equipment for the last several months and it is all still sitting in the boxes. I just over think things and fail to start. I think in my case it is just better to use a professional. I look forward to reporting back here.

Mike,

I am booked out to Aug right now, and a rifle I get in Aug may not be ready until the end of Sep. That said, I'll help you anyway I can.

Here is the link to the load development request: https://www.unknownmunitions.com/services/load-development/

 

[NevadaMike]

Well bummer. I have a long range school in September. Glad to hear you have plenty of work.

 

[UM GM]

Well bummer. I have a long range school in September. Glad to hear you have plenty of work.

We can load you a ladder for you to test loads yourself, then we could load your ammo.

 

[MidGAHunter]

Well bummer. I have a long range school in September. Glad to hear you have plenty of work.

If you have components (powder, primers, bullets, brass) and the necessary equipment then dive in yourself. There are plenty of people here that can guide you along the way. I, and many others here, handload the 6.5 Creedmoor. Or have Unknown send you a ladder test.

 

[UM GM]

For a 6.5 Creed and a 140ish grain bullet, somewhere around 40 grains of H4350 or IMR 4451 with the bullet around .020" off the lands usually works. Start lower and work up on 1/2 grain increments and stop at the first sigh of pressure. After you find the best powder charge, check seating depths starting at .010 off the lands and go in .005 increments. Also, use a chronograph.

 

[UM GM]

Here is a target from 6-13. I was shooting my heavy benchrest gun in a 1000 yd match. 300 WSM shooting Berger 215 HTs. I built this gun myself--chambered the barrel, fit the brake, inletted the stock, bedded the stock, and found the load. This was my first match with the rifle. 10 shots, 3.855", 100-3x. Second best group and score for that day. Gun weighs 30.5 lbs. On 6-12 I shot a 4.33" 100-5x. Second best group, best score for Sat. I guess this rifle turned out all right.

My load is 62.3 grains of IMR 4451 with the bullets jammed .018" into the lands. Velocity is about 2900 fps in a 30" barrel. DO NOT try this load in your rifle.

 

[NevadaMike]

If you have components (powder, primers, bullets, brass) and the necessary equipment then dive in yourself. There are plenty of people here that can guide you along the way. I, and many others here, handload the 6.5 Creedmoor. Or have Unknown send you a ladder test.

Thanks for the replies. I have all of the components I need and its all still in the boxes. I guess I need to dive in as time allows. I have never reloaded before and I tend to overthink things when I should just get started.

 

[Jonesry09]

Had unknown munitions do a load development for my .300 wsm during the big ammo shortage. I am so happy that i did. 3/8" groups @ 100. Now I have a few hundred rounds that I know my rifle will shoot lights out. The communication from Jessica was flat out superb. Anyone who is considering having these guys help get a load developed should jump on it.

 

[49ereric]

It's good to see a post on most any forum which speaks of tuning a load. To so many, it's unheard of since box ammo is good enough. And those that do reload, just load what a manual prints.

I have shot competition benchrest for 25+ years, and tuning is the name of the game. You can have a custom rifle built with the best of the best, but if it's out of tune, it can shoot as poor;y as a production rifle. But learn what it likes, and it makes your day!

When I would talk with guys at work during lunch they would look at me like I was nuts for adjusting the seating depth.
my sporterized 1944 K98 8x57 I had to adjust way out with 175 gr sierra to the point where the bullet is seated @17 thousandths.
not uncommon I found out later.

 

[Outdoorsman12b]

For a 6.5 Creed and a 140ish grain bullet, somewhere around 40 grains of H4350 or IMR 4451 with the bullet around .020" off the lands usually works. Start lower and work up on 1/2 grain increments and stop at the first sigh of pressure. After you find the best powder charge, check seating depths starting at .010 off the lands and go in .005 increments. Also, use a chronograph.

Do you use same starting point of .020 off lands for mono bullets?

 

[Mack84]

I have shot 1K, but the range closed and now the closest matches are 5-6 hours away. I do shoot some groundhog matches out to 800. I use a 30/284, that's the biggest I load for. A few years ago I won a Harrells break/tuner combo. I used a brake on it anyway, but I tried the brake/tuner. I was able to shrink my groups a noticeable amount with the tuner. Tuners do work!

There’s a Harrells Tuner on my bench that is used to tune. Tuned factory Rem CoreLokt to an impressive performer. They do work my thoughts and experience will agree.

 

[Jfjfrye]

View attachment 286409

Thank you for your posts on the load development. I’m going to be starting my first reloading and load development for my 300 wsm. Just curious about where you went from here. Did you then take the data from target four and fine tune with .1 gr increments to find the best node considering target 3&5 were less consistent? I’ve always read you want to have a window…. Maybe two charges that display similar groups…. Any help would be great. I’m just learning and would like to know what to do if I ever come across a single charge node like target 4. Thank you.

 

[NevadaMike]

Listen to the Hornady podcast episode 50. The takeaway I got is if you were to shoot more than 3-5 durning load development the ES/SD would be similar from charge to charge.

 

[JM151]

I know this post is older but I wanted to take my chance. Do you have any load data for a 338 Edge +P on a short barrel? All my rifles are 26” barrels and I’m looking for something different. Short barrel 20” and suppressed. I would like to run a 285 eldm or 265 ABLR. Oh and N570 doesn’t scare me.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

@UM GM
Looks like you're using 3 rd groups for your ladders?
Reading here, especially posts by @Formidilosus and also the S2H podcasts he's been on, the consensus seems to be that 3 rd groups don't reliably tell you anything. Do you find they give you an accurate representation of how the load will perform moving forward?

 

[UM GM]

@UM GM
Looks like you're using 3 rd groups for your ladders?
Reading here, especially posts by @Formidilosus and also the S2H podcasts he's been on, the consensus seems to be that 3 rd groups don't reliably tell you anything. Do you find they give you an accurate representation of how the load will perform moving forward?

That is NOT consensus. Three-shot groups to find loads at long range tell you a lot. Using three shots groups at 1000 yds has allowed me to repeatedly shoot sub 5" 10-shot groups at 1000 yds in LRBR competitions. A couple matches ago, over two days, in varying relays and conditions, I shot: 5.7", 3.9", 4.2", 5.0". That load has been consistent over the life of this barrel, which is about done at 1000 rounds--we are hard on barrels in LRBR.

Now I agree that 3-shot groups--or even 5-shots groups--at 100 yds are meaningless for long range rifles. It is around 300 yds where groups quit lying to us. If you do have to develop loads at 100 yds, then you do need to shoot lots of groups and @Formidilosus 10-shot groups aren't a bad idea.

I use to shoot multiple 5-shot groups at 200 yds to find 600 and 1000 yd loads. I did okay, but when I started developing loads at 1000 yds with three-shot groups I dramatically improved my match results.

 

[UM GM]

I know this post is older but I wanted to take my chance. Do you have any load data for a 338 Edge +P on a short barrel? All my rifles are 26” barrels and I’m looking for something different. Short barrel 20” and suppressed. I would like to run a 285 eldm or 265 ABLR. Oh and N570 doesn’t scare me.

338 Edge +P seems to like 4-5 grains more H-1000 than a standard 338 Edge. So instead of 91-92, the +P will probably like 95-96ish. As always, start low and work up.