UM/S2H/Suppressors/Scopes and More!

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus and @UM GM

First off, you don’t necessarily have to answer this. It’s intended to be food for thought on the suppressor design.

The reflex on the AB can I have is a simple expansion chamber. Given that you are 3-d printing this new can, have you considered adding any structure inside the reflex to direct and therefore slow down the gasses? Seems to me that AB has shown that baffles are more efficient at reducing muzzle blast and noise than their reflexes. Makes me wonder if small “pseudo-baffles” or spirals in the reflex could be used to slow down gasses moving out of the reflex and through the baffles.

Yes. Baffles in the OTB portion gives resistance to the gasses in the expansion chamber- which just means more want to go out the bore rather than back into the reflexed portion.

 

[Formidilosus]

Yep, might have been more obscure of a reference than I thought. Here’s a link @HighUintas. I thought it was an entertaining read.

View attachment 849742

You have to be careful believing that complicated internal designs that are massively “engineered” actually mean anything. The best performing cans from a dB reduction standpoint and from a subjective blind user standpoint all look like they were made in a teenagers garage.

The first UM prototype looked highly engineered- it was 144db on the 20” 308. The version that I drew on a napkin that is much simpler was 138dB. Be careful putting too much stock into “looks complicated, must be better”.

 

[JGRaider]

Sure. Well why don’t they make a can that’s 10” long in front of the muzzle with a 5” reflex, and 2” in diameter- then it will be super quiet.

Or could it be that you build things to a list of requirements, and not try to “beat” something else that doesn’t fit those requirements?

As long as those "requirements" meet what the consumer wants then you ought to be ok. The market will dictate.

 

[walk2112]

This whole conversation is just baffling to me…


(sorry couldn’t help it, haha)

 

[JohnB]

This whole conversation is just baffling to me…


(sorry couldn’t help it, haha)

I feel like this whole forum has broken down into wallopers vs woomphers.

 

[HighUintas]

I missed this when you posted it:


I stated a Raptor 8 with 4” reflex would be lower dB. Not having used a Raptor 6, my guess is that it with a 4” reflex- so 5.5” in front and 4” reflex= 9.5” OAL, and at 1.625” diameter; it will be about the same as the UM, or maybe a touch lower dB… as it should be.

Yup, that's correct. I read the 6" part and my brain translated that to raptor 8.

 

[HighUintas]

What do you believe that will show?

An interesting picture of the baffles to compare to some of the other cross section pictures available.

 

[Roor]

I feel like this whole forum has broken down into wallopers vs woomphers.

It’s all just marketing.

 

[Formidilosus]

An interesting picture of the baffles to compare to some of the other cross section pictures available.

That tells you absolutely nothing about performance. People are wrong for believing that “complicated engineering= good performance”; and the “simple= not good performance”.

 

[Roor]

That tells you absolutely nothing about performance. People are wrong for believing that “complicated engineering= good performance”; and the “simple= not good performance”.

I don’t think anyone argued that complex = better performance.

But some people do want to see what they are getting for a premium priced product.

What are you afraid we will see?

 

[Formidilosus]

I don’t think anyone argued that complex = better performance.

That’s the exact thing that was posted earlier.

But some people do want to see what they are getting for a premium priced product.

Isn’t the performance what you are getting for your money?

What are you afraid we will see?

What are you talking about? I’m not afraid of anything- it isn’t my can and I have no right to show anything.

My responses are because demanding to see inside a can (as the post I responded to showed) is akin to the silly dudes who don’t even know how to change their oil, demanding to look under the hood- like wtf are you looking at?

Performance matters- not what it looks like.

 

[Roor]

That’s the exact thing that was posted earlier.

Are you referring to the Q post? I think that was highlighting them selling a $1,000 suppressor I can make with a form 1 flashlight tube for $250 after hyping it up as the latest and greatest.

Isn’t the performance what you are getting for your money?

Sure. But some people are interested in the engineering behind a product too… I mean.. arnt you?

What are you talking about? I’m not afraid of anything- it isn’t my can and I have no right to show anything.

Then stop trying to sell us someone else’s can.

My responses are because demanding to see inside a can (as the post I responded to showed) is akin to the silly dudes who don’t even know how to change their oil, demanding to look under the hood- like wtf are you looking at?

Performance matters- not what it looks like.

 

[walk2112]

For what it’s worth @HighUintas, you didn’t sound demanding to me!

I’m real interested in this UM can for my go-to hunting rifle. When it comes to cans I say more the merrier. That way there are so many options we can all get the sound we want, no matter where it falls on the ‘pssst-crack-ting’ to ‘whoomph’ spectrum.

 

[Formidilosus]

Are you referring to the Q post? I think that was highlighting them selling a $1,000 suppressor I can make with a form 1 flashlight tube for $250 after hyping it up as the latest and greatest.

That’s most suppressors that aren’t 3d printed- most welded cans should be $200-$400, regardless of brand.

Sure. But some people are interested in the engineering behind a product too… I mean.. arnt you?

Nope.

Then stop trying to sell us someone else’s can.

Quote a single time of me trying to sell you anything.

This is why the industry sucks and most gear is copycat BS. An item made for a specific purpose is brought out, the people using it and testing it try to be open about what and why, and then people misrepresent what’s stated, or outright lie about it.

 

[Roor]

Quote a single time of me trying to sell you anything.

This is why the industry sucks and most gear is copycat BS. An item made for a specific purpose is brought out, the people using it and testing it try to be open about what and why, and then people misrepresent what’s stated, or outright lie about it.

You honestly want us to believe you are not a hype man for a lot of these products?

Your name is literally on the Rokstock box saying “form approved”.

lol

 

[Formidilosus]

You honestly want us to believe you are not a hype man for a lot of these products?

Your name is literally on the Rokstock box saying “form approved”.

lol

So you can’t quote a single time I’ve tried to sell you something? Ok, quote a single post that shows me “hyping” a single product.

 

[HighUintas]

For what it’s worth @HighUintas, you didn’t sound demanding to me!

I’m real interested in this UM can for my go-to hunting rifle. When it comes to cans I say more the merrier. That way there are so many options we can all get the sound we want, no matter where it falls on the ‘pssst-crack-ting’ to ‘whoomph’ spectrum.

You're right, it was not a demand. Just a statement that I'd like to see it because it sounds interesting. I would think that a suppressor with only 4" in front of the barrel that meters at the goal 135-137db or whatever they stated the goal is, may have something different going on in comparison to other suppressors.

 

[Roor]

So you can’t quote a single time I’ve tried to sell you something? Ok, quote a single post that shows me “hyping” a single product.

Why would someone put “form approved” on a box?

 

[Formidilosus]

Why would someone put “form approved” on a box?

Because they thought it would be funny and bought thousands of boxes with it on there. It’s stupid and jackassery and if it wouldn’t waste thousands of dollars they would all be burned. It will not happen again.

This has been addressed multiple times.


Now, please quote me trying to sell a single thing, or hyping a single product.

 

[Roor]

Because they thought it would be funny and bought thousands of boxes with it on there. It’s stupid and jackassery and if it wouldn’t waste thousands of dollars they would all be burned. It will not happen again.

This has been addressed multiple times.


Now, please quote me trying to sell a single thing, or hyping a single product.

I gave you an example. Your name and approval is on the products box.