Ultralight Ultralight Rifles

[Johnagrant6]

I recall some very light rifles in this thread a few years ago.

Thread 'So, how light can a Kimber Hunter be? A build thread.'

Jan 5, 2021

I’ve been wanting the perfect rifle for Eastern close quarters hunting. For diving down into the swamp of the property I hunt, and for tracking deer, for myself and friends.

Criteria were light, short, and hard hitting, as well as not to pretty to worry about roughing up.

Enter a Kimber Hunter in 243 Winchester.



Light, check. Short? Ehh sorta. Packs a punch? lol no. Ugly? Yep.

Let’s see how much weight we can lose in 15 minutes. Here’s the stock with mag removed.



Let’s pull the gel out of the stock and grip, and trim a bit of useless rubber out of the butt...

• ChrisAU
• Replies: 535
• Forum: Firearms

• 

There’s also some fairly light, very compact single shots in this thread:

Thread 'The Hobbit Rifle'

Aug 4, 2020

I've had a ton of interest in the gun I put together for my kids and I. Rather than addressing the same questions repetitively I decided to start a thread on it. My brother-in-law and I put two of these together a little over a year ago with great success. We wanted a gun with an adjustable LOP to accommodate growing shooters, short OAL to make it through nasty brush, ambidextrous and light enough to pack around the mountains. This setup is as close to perfect for our needs as we’ve found.

The first step is to pick up a Thompson Center Encore Pro Hunter Platform. We used the Model #1870...

• SLDMTN
• Replies: 337
• Forum: Firearms

• 

Thank you! I went through the Hobit Rifle thread yesterday. Didn’t seem like there’s very many light rifles in there. At least from my stand point. Great compact options just not light!

I guess I was hoping for a complete setup between 4-5lbs if that’s even possible?

 

[Johnagrant6]

I recall some very light rifles in this thread a few years ago.

Thread 'So, how light can a Kimber Hunter be? A build thread.'

Jan 5, 2021

I’ve been wanting the perfect rifle for Eastern close quarters hunting. For diving down into the swamp of the property I hunt, and for tracking deer, for myself and friends.

Criteria were light, short, and hard hitting, as well as not to pretty to worry about roughing up.

Enter a Kimber Hunter in 243 Winchester.



Light, check. Short? Ehh sorta. Packs a punch? lol no. Ugly? Yep.

Let’s see how much weight we can lose in 15 minutes. Here’s the stock with mag removed.



Let’s pull the gel out of the stock and grip, and trim a bit of useless rubber out of the butt...

• ChrisAU
• Replies: 535
• Forum: Firearms

• 

There’s also some fairly light, very compact single shots in this thread:

Thread 'The Hobbit Rifle'

Aug 4, 2020

I've had a ton of interest in the gun I put together for my kids and I. Rather than addressing the same questions repetitively I decided to start a thread on it. My brother-in-law and I put two of these together a little over a year ago with great success. We wanted a gun with an adjustable LOP to accommodate growing shooters, short OAL to make it through nasty brush, ambidextrous and light enough to pack around the mountains. This setup is as close to perfect for our needs as we’ve found.

The first step is to pick up a Thompson Center Encore Pro Hunter Platform. We used the Model #1870...

• SLDMTN
• Replies: 337
• Forum: Firearms

• 

Went though the kimber thread thank you lots of good stuff in there!

 

[Taudisio]

Well, I’ll need to go back to the drawing board for the 95gr tmk and the 6x45. By that, I mean try some other powders.

Middle 5 were the top of my pressure test, bottom 5 was .4gr lower. Right 5 are my 87gr vmax load. Far left hole, I started to adjust my zero. My loaned out chronograph has gone to a 3rd party, so no velocities to report.

 

[TheM1DoesMyTalking]

Well, I’ll need to go back to the drawing board for the 95gr tmk and the 6x45. By that, I mean try some other powders.
View attachment 1010736
Middle 5 were the top of my pressure test, bottom 5 was .4gr lower. Right 5 are my 87gr vmax load. Far left hole, I started to adjust my zero. My loaned out chronograph has gone to a 3rd party, so no velocities to report.

Which powder is this with and what are you trying next? Trying to glean what I can while waiting for my 6x45 barrel to arrive!

 

[Thegman]

Well, I’ll need to go back to the drawing board for the 95gr tmk and the 6x45. By that, I mean try some other powders.
View attachment 1010736
Middle 5 were the top of my pressure test, bottom 5 was .4gr lower. Right 5 are my 87gr vmax load. Far left hole, I started to adjust my zero. My loaned out chronograph has gone to a 3rd party, so no velocities to report.

I've heard good things about TAC in both 6x45 and 6 Max, maybe give that a try?

 

[ezwy]

Well, I’ll need to go back to the drawing board for the 95gr tmk and the 6x45. By that, I mean try some other powders.
View attachment 1010736
Middle 5 were the top of my pressure test, bottom 5 was .4gr lower. Right 5 are my 87gr vmax load. Far left hole, I started to adjust my zero. My loaned out chronograph has gone to a 3rd party, so no velocities to report.

What’s your barrel twist?

 

[Taudisio]

Which powder is this with and what are you trying next? Trying to glean what I can while waiting for my 6x45 barrel to arrive!

H335 with the 95gr. My 87 vmax load is with x-terminator.

I've heard good things about TAC in both 6x45 and 6 Max, maybe give that a try?

I don’t have any in my stash. I’ll run some pressure tests this week, but I won’t be able to do much for a couple weeks besides that.

What’s your barrel twist?

1 in 8

 

[Taudisio]

Which powder is this with and what are you trying next? Trying to glean what I can while waiting for my 6x45 barrel to arrive!

To answer your first question, I think varget is next up. 8208 after that. This was stolen from elsewhere so take it as some dudes load data from the internet and don’t trust your life on it. I’ll probably do some more research but 24.5gr sounds like the start of my pressure testing unless @Thegman wants to run QL for me….

 

[Thegman]

To answer your first question, I think varget is next up. 8208 after that. This was stolen from elsewhere so take it as some dudes load data from the internet and don’t trust your life on it. I’ll probably do some more research but 24.5gr sounds like the start of my pressure testing unless @Thegman wants to run QL for me….
View attachment 1010965

I would, but no quickload access at the moment. I'll be surprised if you can fit enough Varget to get good velocities though. Hopefully I'm wrong about that as it's a pretty good powder otherwise.

 

[PistolPete]

FWIW, Gordon's Reloading Tool shows a 6x45 (31 g H2O capacity) loaded with a 95 TMK at 2.37" to be at 106% case fill with 25 g Varget, and predicts 2516 fps in a 16" barrel at 61k psi.

 

[Taudisio]

FWIW, Gordon's Reloading Tool shows a 6x45 (31 g H2O capacity) loaded with a 95 TMK at 2.37" to be at 106% case fill with 25 g Varget, and predicts 2516 fps in a 16" barrel at 61k psi.

Thanks, I know I can fit 2.36, 2.37 might be a stretch. I’ve crunched powder before though. H4895 looks to be another decent one. I don’t have any though and I’ll get TAC before I go there.

 

[Thegman]

Thanks, I know I can fit 2.36, 2.37 might be a stretch. I’ve crunched powder before though. H4895 looks to be another decent one. I don’t have any though and I’ll get TAC before I go there.

I think H4895 will outperform Varget. Benchmark would be worth a try as well if you have it. Faster and denser than Varget and H4895. In my very limited 6x45 loading, Benchmark showed pretty good promise.

 

[Taudisio]

I think H4895 will outperform Varget. Benchmark would be worth a try as well if you have it. Faster and denser than Varget and H4895. In my very limited 6x45 loading, Benchmark showed pretty good promise.

Welllllll, I got 24.5gr of varget, at 2.365 and that’s all I’ll be able to get without a dropper tube. Good news, there is still room with x-terminator at 23.5gr. And 23.3gr of 8208 is where it juuuust starts to crunch. If I get off work during daylight hours, I’ll go shoot them in the yard and see if she blows up. I won’t be able to get a velocity though. They are all seated to 2.360 except the varget.

 

[Trackselk]

You guys think I need to verify a new shaw portless shoots well before I go spend $200 on rechambering it to 223ai? I do want solid moa accuracy.
I'm thinking I will drive the 15 minutes to verify, but curious if anyone thinks it's a waste of time and components?

 

[glock233]

You guys think I need to verify a new shaw portless shoots well before I go spend $200 on rechambering it to 223ai? I do want solid moa accuracy.
I'm thinking I will drive the 15 minutes to verify, but curious if anyone thinks it's a waste of time and compone

You guys think I need to verify a new shaw portless shoots well before I go spend $200 on rechambering it to 223ai? I do want solid moa accuracy.
I'm thinking I will drive the 15 minutes to verify, but curious if anyone thinks it's a waste of time and components?

Solid MOA is a lot to ask for a pencil AR barrel held on by a crap barrel nut into a basic upper. My Shaw does about 1.3 inch 10 shot groups shooting Bone Frog 77TMK. Better than I expected.

 

[Taudisio]

You guys think I need to verify a new shaw portless shoots well before I go spend $200 on rechambering it to 223ai? I do want solid moa accuracy.
I'm thinking I will drive the 15 minutes to verify, but curious if anyone thinks it's a waste of time and components?

I’d 100% try at least 2 different factory loads before I spent money to expand the chamber. Anything over 2” and I would sit down and re-evaluate. Even aac can do that.

It’s not to say that any accuracy issues wouldn’t be cleaned out after re-chambering. But in the off chance your barrel shoots 1/4 moa with some factory rounds, then you go to rechamber it and it ruins the accuracy. That’s more of where my head would be. If it shoots 3/4 or better with 10 round groups, I’d buy another barrel to rechamber.

 

[Trackselk]

I’d 100% try at least 2 different factory loads before I spent money to expand the chamber. Anything over 2” and I would sit down and re-evaluate. Even aac can do that.

Thanks to both of you, I have a lot to learn about ARs still...
What about going to the effort of rolling up some homemade precision rounds, or just stick with 2" cheap stuff should equal moa precision stuff?
Oh I know, I can reevaluate with some homemade if it shoots terrible, and call it quits if I can't make it shoot...

What got me thinking it might be a wastè of time is that I've read that production barrels often have misalignment between the chamber and bore, so I figured that that was the main culprit in an inaccurate barrel, and a good smith would make that go away?

 

[Taudisio]

Thanks to both of you, I have a lot to learn about ARs still...
What about going to the effort of rolling up some homemade precision rounds, or just stick with 2" cheap stuff should equal moa precision stuff?
Oh I know, I can reevaluate with some homemade if it shoots terrible, and call it quits if I can't make it shoot...

What got me thinking it might be a wastè of time is that I've read that production barrels often have misalignment between the chamber and bore, so I figured that that was the main culprit in an inaccurate barrel, and a good smith would make that go away?

I would just waste as little time as possible and try a couple factory options.

Misalignment can happen, probably not, and not really measurable with home tools. Another can be barrel straightness. Again, not really something the every jack can measure without the right setup. Both of those could be slightly worked out with a good gunsmith mic’ing, reaming, and adjusting the barrel extension. Both of them being out could have zero effect on how it shoots. You won’t know until you try.

 

[Hoosker Doo]

6x45 Solo, 16" X-caliber update:

Keeping length at 2.37", I dropped my powder (H335) charge to 24.0 gr. My group tightened back up, but I still punched 2 out of 5 primers.

I decided to keep the load and switch fromm CCI 400 to Winchester #41 .556 primers.

10 shot Result:

I did have one failure to fire - I blame a bad primer, not the polymer lower parts kit. There was a normal looking strike on the primer. Handling the round afterwards kinfmd of felt like holding a grenade with the pin pulled, and I gave it some distance haha. So 10 shots turned into 9.

Primer strikes looked normal.

Group stayed tight (<1.5") circled shot was a pull. I called it at the shot before checking the target.View attachment 906386

Speed slowed about 10 fps with the new primers, but I'm still above 2500 fps which puts me at 1800 fps out past 400 yards.

View attachment 906396

Another update to my 6x45 load, now that hunting season is over and I don't have to worry about messing up my ballistics.

16" X-caliber 6x45 spaghetti contour
90 gr ELD-X w/H335 powder
Current load - 24 gr @ 2.37" = 2,504 fps

Since I upgraded to Winchester #41 .556 primers, I figured I would bump my load back up to 25 gr and try it (Accuracy was good but I was punching through CCI 400 primers so I backed off).

At 25 gr H335, primers looked great. Action cycled perfectly. Velocity went to 2,610 Avg over 10 shots with an extreme spread of 54 fps. This has me knocking on the door of 500 yds before hitting 1,800 fps.

Shot 2 groups, both about 1.5". This one's a hair under.

H335 with the 95gr. My 87 vmax load is with x-terminator.

That's a bummer to hear. I was thinking I could probably put together a pretty awesome load woth 95 TMK's and H335 and still be getting 2500 fps or so.

 

[Taudisio]

Another update to my 6x45 load, now that hunting season is over and I don't have to worry about messing up my ballistics.

16" X-caliber 6x45 spaghetti contour
90 gr ELD-X w/H335 powder
Current load - 24 gr @ 2.37" = 2,504 fps

Since I upgraded to Winchester #41 .556 primers, I figured I would bump my load back up to 25 gr and try it (Accuracy was good but I was punching through CCI 400 primers so I backed off).

At 25 gr H335, primers looked great. Action cycled perfectly. Velocity went to 2,610 Avg over 10 shots with an extreme spread of 54 fps. This has me knocking on the door of 500 yds before hitting 1,800 fps.

Shot 2 groups, both about 1.5". This one's a hair under.
View attachment 1013638



That's a bummer to hear. I was thinking I could probably put together a pretty awesome load woth 95 TMK's and H335 and still be getting 2500 fps or so.

I would say that just because they don’t shoot in my barrel, doesn’t mean they won’t shoot well in yours, even though the barrels are the same and were most likely cut with the same reamer. I’m going to have to take inventory and see if I have some of those eld-x. The g1 is only .409 vs the .400 on the vmax though. Not enough difference between the two to go out and buy a box for me.