Ultralight optics... spotter vs image Stabilized Binos

[LostWapiti]

I’ll also be using the 10x Zulu 6 on my chest and sometimes carrying the NL Pure for longer glassing sessions. Then for spotter I have the Kowa 66a but have been thinking of getting a straight mini spotter for the same reasons everyone is saying about quicker switch from binos and target acquisition. For the price(with a discount I can get) and weight, the Vortex 13-39 is looking VERY attractive.

 

[Hoosier.270]

I think this is kind of the opposite of what you were thinking but hear me out. I have the 10s and 16s in the zulu 6s and the 10s are really a workhorse for me, The 16s can’t be beat for 3d archery and they are better for scanning at long distances but I don’t think they replace a spotter in a lot of scenarios.

I actually think this year I’ll be carrying my small spotter, tiny little tripod and the 10 Zulu 6s most of the time. I don’t need a tall or beefy tripod to support my spotter, and I like being able to quickly look through my binos and then the spotter without fiddling with the tripod. The perfectly stable 10s, even with one hand, with a much larger field of view, they are pretty sweet.

Edit to add: To confuse you a bit and contradict myself, the 16s with the 3x optical zoom of an iPhone and a scopecam adapter works pretty well.

How is the optical quality of the 16s with the scope cam? I was eyeing this exact setup for hunting as well as family trips to parks in the summer. Not interested in counting tines. Hung up on this setup or a vortex 13-39x56.

 

[TheGDog]

Reporting to group here... The Maven S.2 12x27 56mm, now that I've gotten it back from having it looked at by Maven (I bought this used, I believe from Outdoorsman's), I'm diggin on it! Seems on-point now!

The only two things I've noticed, that I'm getting used to on the Maven... is the depth-of-field of focus isn't as deep as what you see when looking thru good 10x42's. Which is to be expected, I'm sure.

Comparing the Maven to my ZEISS Dailyt 65mm... The clarity and sharpness of image are very very similar. Which is a huge plus! But you definitely notice the Dialyt 65mm having a noticeably deeper depth of field of focus.

And the focus ring barrel adjuster on the straight-scope body? My fingers are still adjusting to the difference in feel, versus the coarse+fine adjustment knob duo I got used to with the lil minij Vortex Razor.

I'm having to learn how to apply a light-touch to this barrel adjuster style with the straight-body design to obtain minute fine-detail focusing adjustments. The fine-adjustment knob on the piror angled body one, made the fine-tuning to perfection definitely easier.

The ratio they chose for how rapidly the twist of the focus adjusting barrel manipulates the delta amount of focus change... that ratio is picked just about right.

If anything? For my taste, I'd have slowed it down juuuust a tiny hair more, to better allow the user to acquire fine-focus granular control when they slow-down, with less over-shooting/over-correction occurring, requiring fishing back-and-forth again to verify you've selected sharpest level of focus adjustment before beginning your viewing experience.

I'm still getting used to dialing in focus with the barrel adjuster. Kinda having to re-train myself for the heavier touch these barrel adjusters require. It's action is nice and smooth with just the right amount of drag to the rotation feel. Just if the ratio was lowered a fraction more, for my liking, it'd be a touch better at helping you achieve fine-focus right the first-pass.

Y'day I noted that when leaving the rubber cap hanging off the objective lens... it would get pulled by the sunset crosswinds coming in over at bolsa chica wetlands. I found that if I removed that rubber cap off the scopes body it was lessening the effect of the wind pulling on that flopping lens cover and jiggling the view. So for now I'm just shoving the scope down into a thick Motocross sock before shoving it into my pack.

-G

 

[Bobrobheimer]

How would you compare the mini razor hd to the Mavin? I have the razor and don’t love it and my buddy has the Maven but I haven’t looked through it much though my initial impression was that I definitely preferred it.

 

[TheGDog]

Sure seems like a better grade of glass to me than the 11-33x50mm.

To me... the Maven looks a noticeable bit more like the image from my ZEISS stuff.

I was worried at first that the top end of 27 would seem weaksauce. But I think it should be more than adequate for the Alpine location I have in mind that I desperately needed to shed some pack weight for.

For me? The realistic top end magnification on that 11-33x50 Razor is like... 22x-24x maybe? Honestly once you're past that mark?... it just gets darker and darker and fuzzier and fuzzier rapidly. Noticeably so, in comparison to the Maven. And the biggest improvement for me, wearing glasses (and I want to be able to keep them on all the time) the Maven has MUCH more eye relief at full magnification. With the Razor, my damn eyeglass would have to actually touch the eyepiece lens to be able to get up on the picture at full magnification. It was dumb.

That Dialyt makes a beautiful image though! It can just feel like a bit much to carry when climbing up horrible steep stuff. And I got some disc bulging now, so pushing it up that steep stuff, ya quickly realize ya gotta be good about doing all ya can to shed pack weight. Within reason.

 

[bigbuckdj]

How is the optical quality of the 16s with the scope cam? I was eyeing this exact setup for hunting as well as family trips to parks in the summer. Not interested in counting tines. Hung up on this setup or a vortex 13-39x56.

I’ll see if I can get some pics with it on for reference vs my spotting scope. It’s not as bright as I’d like but you can see what you’re after.

 

[Bobrobheimer]

Your experience with the Vortex matches mine.

 

[Hoosier.270]

I’ll see if I can get some pics with it on for reference vs my spotting scope. It’s not as bright as I’d like but you can see what you’re after.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I’m no optics snob by any means, I’ve never owned anything more expensive than vortex vipers.

 

[TravisIN]

I just got my 56mm razor. I got the straight model just for packability. Super impressed with it. Great clarity and does well in lowlight. Kicked around the sigs but figured the spotter gave me more range and versatility. Think I made the right choice.

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[Hoosier.270]

I just got my 56mm razor. I got the straight model just for packability. Super impressed with it. Great clarity and does well in lowlight. Kicked around the sigs but figured the spotter gave me more range and versatility. Think I made the right choice.

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I’m leaning this way. I’m worried about the IS feature going out on the sigs in 10 years. Vortex has always taken care of me.

 

[packgoatguy]

Quick update. I've finally got my hands on a zulu6 10x30 to test and compare against... I've got to say the OIS is pretty incredible. No real advantage over tripod mounted binos or spotter under normal glassing conditions... but a significant benefit if the wind picks up. I was able to compare side by side a tripod mounted bino in 15-20 mph winds looking at a hillside 900 yards away at last light, and there was no contest... the OIS in my hands was easier to see details with than the tripod mounted non-ois bino or spotter with even minor vibration from the heavy wind.

I Jimmy-rigged a phoneskope mount for it, and was able to get footage holding it in my hand that was nearly as stable as the tripod mounted phoneskope... so that could be useful in some situations.

I still have heartburn over adding weight to my kit, so I'm looking for ways to mitigate the weight increase. I'm considering trying out one of the cheap 20oz 9-27x56 compact spotters (like the hawke, celestron, or svbony) for my regular digiscoping needs instead my Kowa 553 15-45x55. (Then between the 19.2oz of the Zulu6 and a 20 oz spotter, i only gain 2 oz over my current system) As it is, the only thing I wish I could change about the Kowa is... I think it would be perfect if it were the same quality of glass, but with a 10-40x zoom instead of the 15-45x... and a couple ounces lighter. Even an 8-36x55 would be sweet. Having the minimum zoom at 15x can be a drag sometimes.

That said, if I'm not rifle hunting and don't have a tripod at hand... a Zulu6 is a significant upgrade over conventional binos.

As a side note, I weighed my nikon Monarch hd 12x42 binos, and they are a couple oz heavier than even the 12x42 or bigger Zulu6 models.

I would still like to hear more from folks who have had success using 3x optical zoom smartphones, or bino doublers, or other lighter-weight options for ditching a spotter alternatives. Or lesser known ultralight low mag (8-40x) but big objective lense monoculars/spotters/telescopes.

There are still those times when I'm glassing a hillside a mile or two away... and I can't determine at 10 or 15x if a particular stump/bush/rock is actually a bear/deer etc... but zoomed in to 25, 30, or 40x I can clearly see that it is or isn't an animal. This scenario probably only reflects about 10% of the time... but it is a concern none the less.

 

[doc holiday13]

I’ve been thinking about some similar things to you. The sig 20x binos seem very intriguing but I haven’t heard much about them. I have used the 10s, 12s, and 16s though and they are all awesome but each have their drawbacks.

I played with the Sig 20x42 Zulu6 this past weekend.. I was using them to read the ski slope map/sign about 150 yards away. If you were seated and used a hiking pole as a "rest", you could easily glass with them

 

[TravisIN]

I’m leaning this way. I’m worried about the IS feature going out on the sigs in 10 years. Vortex has always taken care of me.

Longevity was a factor also. Not saying the sigs won’t make it, but I know technology in other things like vehicles or computers, doesn’t age as well.


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[bigbuckdj]

I still owe yall some photos with the 10s, 16s, and spotter with and without the 3x iPhone lens. I’ll get back home this week and whip something up.

 

[4th_point]

I've used a lightweight quality spotter setup (sub 30oz Kowa 553 15-45x) coupled with a tiny 10x25 binocular (8oz) for a number of years. This combo has served me well. I can scan quickly with the lightweight binos, and switch to the tripod mounted spotter for a more detailed look. Plus I can mount my smart phone camera to the spotter to film distant wildlife and record shots taken.

However, I'm always looking for a better system...

I've considered swapping to an image stabilized bino, something like the 12 or 15x Zulu6, and having it do double duty (ditch the small binos and spotter in favor of one IS Bino). There would be significant weight savings (38oz now, vs 22oz with the Zulu6). I assume I could still get a phoneskope adapter to fit on the Zulu6 so I could still record/digiscope. I've wondered if it would even make sense to add a 2x doubler monocular to the Zulu6 for filming with the smartphone... not sure how this would work in reality though...

I would miss not being able to zoom in to 45x on the spotter... and not having the 10x scanning ability would be something I'd have to get used to if I was limited to just 12 or 15x... but do the weight savings justify the sacrifice? Has anyone gone with a similar setup?

I understand what you are trying to accomplish. I also own the Legend 10x25 and it goes with me on most of my travels!

I also own or have used:

• 2x doubler
• Zulu 10x (non-HDX)
• Zulu 16x (non-HDX)
• Zulu 16x HDX
• 56mm Hawke/Gosky spotter
• Canon 15x50
• ED50
• various other binocs and spotters, incl 10x25 Legend

I used the 16x SIG on a scouting trip and it was OK, but I wish that I brought my spotter. I sold the SIG and replaced it with the Canon as the image is noticeably better (flat field and better resolution). That was my solution, but I am traveling a lot now and have the 10x25 Legend in my carry on. And am selling my Canon. It's a great optic, better than the SIG to my eyes, but it has its own downsides.

 

[packgoatguy]

I understand what you are trying to accomplish. I also own the Legend 10x25 and it goes with me on most of my travels!

I also own or have used:

• 2x doubler
• Zulu 10x (non-HDX)
• Zulu 16x (non-HDX)
• Zulu 16x HDX
• 56mm Hawke/Gosky spotter
• Canon 15x50
• ED50
• various other binocs and spotters, incl 10x25 Legend

I used the 16x SIG on a scouting trip and it was OK, but I wish that I brought my spotter. I sold the SIG and replaced it with the Canon as the image is noticeably better (flat field and better resolution). That was my solution, but I am traveling a lot now and have the 10x25 Legend in my carry on. And am selling my Canon. It's a great optic, better than the SIG to my eyes, but it has its own downsides.

How do you like the 56mm Hawke? The 9-27x56mm correct?

 

[4th_point]

How do you like the 56mm Hawke? The 9-27x56mm correct?

It's an interesting concept, but my sample was junk. The 9x to 27x range was really appealing. The optical quality was poor.

I compared it side-by-side to the ED50. No contest. The ED50 could easily resolve more detail. But the Nikon is lightly constructed.

 

[bigbuckdj]

I still owe yall some photos with the 10s, 16s, and spotter with and without the 3x iPhone lens. I’ll get back home this week and whip something up.

So I messed with the 10s, 16s, and spotter for awhile. The short of it is, in my eyes you don’t gain much with the 3x optical lens of the phone. The spotter resolves much better at 45x vs the 16x with the 3x lens. The photos don’t really show as dramatic of a story as your eyes do, the spotter at 45x is like looking at it in your hands and the 16s with the 3x doesn’t let you see thing you couldn’t with your eyes through the binoculars.

The spotter is an opticron mm4 60 15-45. I am sure it’s not a swaro but I think this works for comparison.

I was in a pinch and I could only print these micro resolution charts and I was viewing them at 25 yards or so.


Opticron mm4 60 at 15x no digital zoom or cropping.


Zulu 6, 16x no digital zoom or cropping




Opticron at 45x



Zulu 6 16x with 3 x lens



the 16s, zoomed digitally to around 2x



I’ll share some thoughts from just looking through them with my eyes. I don’t think the 3x lens is really worth fooling with for myself. It’s easier to line up and get a nice image with the 1x and if you need more, the digital zoom didn’t degrade it enough for me to care, in every situation I liked looking at around 2x digital zoom.

This kind of confirmed some stuff for me, the 16s aren’t a spotter but it’s really fun using a scope adapter handheld with them. I’ll keep it with me when I hunt this year. Through my eyes focused perfectly, the 16s produce a nicer image than I feel the pictures portray. I sat out there for awhile and messed with what I have for awhile if anybody has any other questions.

 

[packgoatguy]

I took the Zulu6 10x30 on a little backpacking trip with the kids a couple days ago. I have to edit one of my previous observations... I now think there is an advantage over a typical tripod mounted bino setup. I regularly use my binos on a sort of monopod setup with my hiking staff for quick scans of the countryside as I hike. This setup has served me well, and has noticeably less shake and movement than if I hold the binos by hand... but I didn't realize how much shake even my monopod setup still had until I compared it side by side with the hand held zulu6. Furthermore, when I actually took the time to sit and glass, I noticed I could cover more country quicker with a stabilized hand-held approach than with the tripod. Just being able to check something quickly that catches your attention out of the corner of your eye, but otherwise would require me to move the whole tripod... that could be a pretty significant advantage when I'm trying to keep tabs on a lot of country during a prime time like the last hour of daylight or something.

One downside I noticed though, I think there is probably a limit to how long I could glass with the zulu6... it seems like the slight bounce the image makes when i move the binos might eventually make me "car sick".

Someday I hope to see a true one and done optic... with the glass quality of a swaro, image stabilized, built in range finding capabilities, wide field of view, zoom capable from 8x to 50x, 60mm or bigger objective lense, binocular eye piece, and weighs under 30oz. Oh, and has a lifetime (no questions asked) warranty, and costs under $2k retail.

 

[Hoosier.270]

So I messed with the 10s, 16s, and spotter for awhile. The short of it is, in my eyes you don’t gain much with the 3x optical lens of the phone. The spotter resolves much better at 45x vs the 16x with the 3x lens. The photos don’t really show as dramatic of a story as your eyes do, the spotter at 45x is like looking at it in your hands and the 16s with the 3x doesn’t let you see thing you couldn’t with your eyes through the binoculars.

The spotter is an opticron mm4 60 15-45. I am sure it’s not a swaro but I think this works for comparison.

I was in a pinch and I could only print these micro resolution charts and I was viewing them at 25 yards or so.
View attachment 722820

Opticron mm4 60 at 15x no digital zoom or cropping.
View attachment 722824

Zulu 6, 16x no digital zoom or cropping


View attachment 722825

Opticron at 45x

View attachment 722828

Zulu 6 16x with 3 x lens

View attachment 722829

the 16s, zoomed digitally to around 2x

View attachment 722831

I’ll share some thoughts from just looking through them with my eyes. I don’t think the 3x lens is really worth fooling with for myself. It’s easier to line up and get a nice image with the 1x and if you need more, the digital zoom didn’t degrade it enough for me to care, in every situation I liked looking at around 2x digital zoom.

This kind of confirmed some stuff for me, the 16s aren’t a spotter but it’s really fun using a scope adapter handheld with them. I’ll keep it with me when I hunt this year. Through my eyes focused perfectly, the 16s produce a nicer image than I feel the pictures portray. I sat out there for awhile and messed with what I have for awhile if anybody has any other questions.

Great comparison