Tuners’ how close is close enough? (People tuning for others)

[nphunter]

I’m curious for the guys who are tuning bows for other people. How close is close enough? Do you get a perfect paper tear with a fletched arrow (a lot of shops stop here). Do paper tune with a bare shaft? Do you bare shaft at 20-40-60?

I’m curious because last week I tuned a bow for a good friend. This friend has a 29” draw and is left handed. I’m 27.5” and right handed. I went through the whole bow, cleaned it up, reassembled it with new strings and got it shooting bullet holes with fletched and then with a bare shaft. At 40 a bare shaft was flying about 4” right of field points and fixed heads were shooting 2” right.

The center shoot looks great though and high/low is perfect. The arrow is directly in line with the riser and string and right where I would want it. This is the first left handed bow I’ve ever drawn or shot but I feel like I was able to get a clean release. I felt it would be a huge waste of time for me to make a tiny rest adjustment to have the BH and FP touch because the draw is 1.5” long for me which could easily account for the RH miss. I would rather leave it where I feel like everything looks great and fine tune it to him.

I’m curious where others stop, how they deal with too long of draw or left vs right handed bows. This is the first left hand bow I’ve done, most of the right hand stuff I’ve done I just get really close and shoot them with the owners at the house. This bow is my hunting partners and he lives 3hrs away so he wasn’t here to shoot it. I just told him it should be super close and to make a tiny adjustment and to call after he shoots to see here it’s at. He’s shooting mechanicals so he probably realistically wouldn’t have to adjust it at all.

 

[Beendare]

IMO,

Tuned is when you can shoot your BHs to the same group size as your FPs at the longest distance you would take a shot.

Its simple logic, if the BH group is larger, the arrow is not flying perfect.

 

[Rob5589]

I paper tune as perfect as possible, then walk back tune, then shoot a broadhead at 50 yds. I've not had an issue with any bow using this method.

 

[Billy Goat]

I expect groups to open up slightly with broadheads, but shoot same groups within reason.

I usually tune for people while they shoot the bow. If not, I use a shooting machine and get stuff to where the arrow is practically going back in the same hole at 60+ yards no matter what point is on it.

Then tell them to learn to shoot the bow so it's in tune.


I find in most instances a bareshaft in relation to fletched tune at 20 is enough for people to screw on a broadhead and hunt. Going past 20 yards is testing the archer more than the equipment. Should always check with broadheads at distances you intend to hunt.


I don't do much with paper but keep notes.

 

[nphunter]

IMO,

Tuned is when you can shoot your BHs to the same group size as your FPs at the longest distance you would take a shot.

Its simple logic, if the BH group is larger, the arrow is not flying perfect.

I agree with this and that’s how I normally tune. I’m wondering about tuning bows for another person. Just because I can hit them at whatever distance doesn’t mean they can and in the case mentioned above I’m tuning a left hand bow 1.5” too long for a buddy.

 

[nphunter]

I expect groups to open up slightly with broadheads, but shoot same groups within reason.

I usually tune for people while they shoot the bow. If not, I use a shooting machine and get stuff to where the arrow is practically going back in the same hole at 60+ yards no matter what point is on it.

Then tell them to learn to shoot the bow so it's in tune.


I find in most instances a bareshaft in relation to fletched tune at 20 is enough for people to screw on a broadhead and hunt. Going past 20 yards is testing the archer more than the equipment. Should always check with broadheads at distances you intend to hunt.


I don't do much with paper but keep notes.

Thanks, so you bare shaft all the bows you tune for people to get them hitting together at 20 yards?

 

[S.Clancy]

IMO,

Tuned is when you can shoot your BHs to the same group size as your FPs at the longest distance you would take a shot.

Its simple logic, if the BH group is larger, the arrow is not flying perfect.

A broadhead is never going to group as good as a field point. You may get some groups that do, but on average over a large sample size, they will be larger.

That said, if I can get my fixed broadhead groups to within 20% or so larger than my field tips, I feel that is "tuned". So, an 8" field tip group average at 70 yards I would find a 10" group average for fixed broadhead acceptable.

 

[Billy Goat]

Thanks, so you bare shaft all the bows you tune for people to get them hitting together at 20 yards?

I generally have them shoot while I'll make adjustments to the bow for their shooting.


If they are close to my DL I can shoot it faster than using a machine and usually get same results.

But I have found that bareshafts at 20 is usually all you need.


I tuned a bow for a gorilla that lives like 18 hours away, he shipped it to me. I shot it some and didn't loose my ear, but made final adjustments to it with shooting machine. Shipped it back. I think after a few months he might have made an adjustment with the rest a few clicks, but then a week later put it right back to where I had it. Turns out it was his form had slipped a little bit. Might of had something to do with a bicycle and a curb he didn't clear resulting in a messed up shoulder too.

He was shooting some medium/large fixed blades.

 

[5MilesBack]

I usually tune for people while they shoot the bow.

This ^^^.

After they shoot several single BH and FP arrows I'm usually pretty comfortable with where the tune is, and how well they shoot. I always BH tune at 60. At that distance it doesn't take much of an adjustment to get a decent amount of correction. Here's a BH and FP from 60 before I set my sight. I'm OK with this result, but if I keep getting that result over and over I'll probably shoot from 80+ to see if I can tune it closer.

 

[Beendare]

A broadhead is never going to group as good as a field point. You may get some groups that do, but on average over a large sample size, they will be larger.

I know plenty of guys that can group BH's and FP's the same out to 60y....and a couple can do it a long ways past that. Don't let BH's psych you out. The drag from the avg BH is not a factor in flight if you have a decent weight arrow with a little stiffer spine.

The guys having tuning issues are usually on the cusp of under spined.

That said, I see why you say that.....My BH groups don't always work out to be the same as my FP's at long range....but it's probably because I currently spend 80% of my time shooting a recurve so my compound shooting ability suffers and is not as good as it should be.

 

[Ho5tile1]

I get my buddies and there friends bows all squared up and in spec and make the changes as they shoot. Can’t rally tune another persons bow per say


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[OR Archer]

Anymore I always have the person shoot the bow. One I can correct the bow to them shooting. But it also allows me to correct any form issues that may be influencing the tune itself. In the past I’d shoot them through paper and get them shooting good, both left and right handed before having them shoot it. I’m not able to do that anymore with my shoulders so I have them shoot.

 

[nphunter]

Anymore I always have the person shoot the bow. One I can correct the bow to them shooting. But it also allows me to correct any form issues that may be influencing the tune itself. In the past I’d shoot them through paper and get them shooting good, both left and right handed before having them shoot it. I’m not able to do that anymore with my shoulders so I have them shoot.

What if you shipping bows out? I guess that's where my question comes from, I picked up my buddy's bow while passing through town, and he meet me on the interstate at a offramp. I set it all up and got it shooting the best I could for me and I had to work down in that area one day so I dropped it off at his office. He wasn't able to shoot it and even if he was I can't tune it other than making rest adjustments in a parking lot somewhere.

I've had several other people who would not be able to shoot the bow ask about sending me their bows to go through for them. That's where my question is coming from.

Maybe Rokslide is the wrong place to ask this question, maybe I will reach out to a few guys who tune bows for people remotely and have a chat with them.

 

[homebru.trout]

What if you shipping bows out? I guess that's where my question comes from, I picked up my buddy's bow while passing through town, and he meet me on the interstate at a offramp. I set it all up and got it shooting the best I could for me and I had to work down in that area one day so I dropped it off at his office. He wasn't able to shoot it and even if he was I can't tune it other than making rest adjustments in a parking lot somewhere.

I've had several other people who would not be able to shoot the bow ask about sending me their bows to go through for them. That's where my question is coming from.

Maybe Rokslide is the wrong place to ask this question, maybe I will reach out to a few guys who tune bows for people remotely and have a chat with them.

I feel like you are getting two different answers to your question. One answer deals with how people tune their own bows and the other gets to the question you are asking which I think is "How much hassle should you go thru given that the bow isn't yours and your buddy is going to draw, grip, hold, and release differently than you are?"

If I'm setting up a bow for someone else (I used to work in a shop but now just out of my house), I'll do a very meticulous setup on the basics, shoot through paper to get it close, and bareshaft tune to 20 yards...unless draw length is wildly off (I have a friend with a 32" draw). All this does is prove that I can get someone else's bow, at someone else's draw length, to shoot reasonably well in my hands. Think of all the variables involved when you hand that bow to your buddy, a customer, etc.: different release, different shot cycle, anchor point, probably have to mess with peep height, different grip, different follow thru.

If someone wants a hunt-ready bow, they need to take the initial set up, shoot it for a good long while and then be present while I tweak on it after strings and cables are settled, they have reverified and adjusted sight-in, etc. I also have some pretty strong opinions about an ethical hunter knowing his/her equipment so I can't actually recall a single case where I told someone I would get their bow broadhead tuned to XYZ yards without them present and ready to learn a thing or two. If you want me to do all the work, aren't the least bit curious, and you're just interested in the kill, go find a shop.

My $0.02.

 

[OR Archer]

What if you shipping bows out? I guess that's where my question comes from, I picked up my buddy's bow while passing through town, and he meet me on the interstate at a offramp. I set it all up and got it shooting the best I could for me and I had to work down in that area one day so I dropped it off at his office. He wasn't able to shoot it and even if he was I can't tune it other than making rest adjustments in a parking lot somewhere.

I've had several other people who would not be able to shoot the bow ask about sending me their bows to go through for them. That's where my question is coming from.

Maybe Rokslide is the wrong place to ask this question, maybe I will reach out to a few guys who tune bows for people remotely and have a chat with them.

Honestly you already answered your own question. If you can’t have the person shoot it you can only get it shooting good through your hands. After that it’s on the shooter to make the small corrections if applicable. I’ve had a lot of people send me bows over the years and that’s all you can do without them present.

 

[Ho5tile1]

As others have said the person who will be using the bow needs to be shooting it all you can do is get the bow in spec and everything squared up and or get it shooting good for you but soon as he gets his hands on it there’s a very high probability it’s not gonna shoot the same. I had a buddy who’s bow I did and had him come over when I was done so he could shoot the bow through paper, the issue was this guy pulls his bow out a week or 2 before the seasons starts and thinks that’s good enough and for some folks it is. But everytime he would shoot the bow it would do something different I tried to help him with his grip and forum etc. and he was like Jason I don’t care about any of that I just wanna kill a deer. So I told him go to a shop where they will gladly take your money and get your bow shooting great for them. Other wise get some kind of mechanical head and go shoot it and move your site so it hits where u aim but I don’t wanna hear anything when you wound a deer cause your arrow is flying dang near sideways cause you torque the bow so bad and have a death grip on it along with a few other issues. My opinion is you can’t tune a bow for some one else sure you can get everything on the bow correct and some folks may get lucky with arrow flight and kill a deer or whatever. But most cut on contact heads need some tuning on the bow correct arrow spine etc. and it needs to be in that persons hands. I would never ship my bow off to have it “tuned” maybe ship it to have it put in spec. Then back so it can be tuned to me..


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[Zac]

Paige has talked about this in the past and said it’s not really a big deal if someone torques a bow differently than someone else. She says bows now are adjustable enough to basically accommodate anyone, and about anything can be tuned out. Anyways I would say close enough is probably within the realms of a rest adjustment. Especially if your friend doesn’t have access to a press. Bill from IW says 4 inches at 40 between a bare shaft and a fletched is just fine. I think if that is achievable with a rest adjustment that would be just fine.

 

[BKM]

You can get a basic tune (good enough for a mechanical) shooting there bow but it’s never going to be as good as the person shooting it.

The other half is many archers are so inconsistent in form you will just be chasing your tail tuning to them .

 

[Bergy-Bowsmith]

I bare shaft to out to 15 yards through paper to a perfect hole, this ensures that the arrow is not in "correction" as some pros would claim, using this method with everything running down the center of the bow i have never had any major adjustments needed to make a fixed blade group out to 100 yards.

As for a few of the comments saying that the shooter needs to be the one to shoot the bow that just isnt the case, I have covered this topic on my personal platforms many many times.

The fact of the matter is that bows are machines and should be treated as such tune the bow fix the shooter. on my recent episode on Eastmans Elevated I covered this very topic as well, tuning alot of bows for people all over the country I have never had a customer reach back out after they recieved their bow back and say that broadheads and fieldtips do not group out to their maximum effective range. this just proves that when the machine is in perfect alignment that even small deficits' in form are not detrimental because the bow is in its most forgiving state.

I have proven this essence of the shooter doesnt need to be the one shooting the bow over 1000 times for 1000 different customers since being in business.

Hope this helps, Shoot Straight,

Bergy.

 

[jbelz]

I bare shaft to out to 15 yards through paper to a perfect hole, this ensures that the arrow is not in "correction" as some pros would claim, using this method with everything running down the center of the bow i have never had any major adjustments needed to make a fixed blade group out to 100 yards.

As for a few of the comments saying that the shooter needs to be the one to shoot the bow that just isnt the case, I have covered this topic on my personal platforms many many times.

The fact of the matter is that bows are machines and should be treated as such tune the bow fix the shooter. on my recent episode on Eastmans Elevated I covered this very topic as well, tuning alot of bows for people all over the country I have never had a customer reach back out after they recieved their bow back and say that broadheads and fieldtips do not group out to their maximum effective range. this just proves that when the machine is in perfect alignment that even small deficits' in form are not detrimental because the bow is in its most forgiving state.

I have proven this essence of the shooter doesnt need to be the one shooting the bow over 1000 times for 1000 different customers since being in business.

Hope this helps, Shoot Straight,

Bergy.

Tuning the bow and fixing the shooter sounds great in theory, but in moments of stress a shooter will fall back to their most basic level of training/ability. I can take just about any bow and get it to shoot bullet holes by torquing the grip just the right way, but when an elk is screaming in my face, I'm going to revert to the grip I've developed over time. A bow is not perfectly tuned until the actual shooter can consistently produce perfect arrow flight. If the shooter has bad form/mechanics, you'll be chasing your tail tuning anyways.

I would not trust anyone to tune my bow for me – that's not a slight against you or anyone else – I made it a priority to learn how to tune because bowhunting is about the only thing I care about in this life. Luckily I had great mentors who stressed this.

As for the OP's question, I don't do any tuning unless I'm there with the person (for reasons stated above), but I guess if I had to ship one out, I'd get it bareshaft tuned and grouping broadheads for me and hope for the best. In a perfect world the owner would just need to make a few tiny adjustments.

Just my $0.02