Trying to make reloading easier.

[Durable Gun]

Forget velocity nodes man. Been there done that. Don’t even try to argue with people that say those are important.

You’ll know if your gun likes it if it’s sub 2” group for 10 or more shots at 100 yards. Sometimes it will even be around 1” at 100 yards but don’t chase that 1” group

This is what Form means: Find pressure (or go off book max if you’re not comfortable reading pressure signs on the head of the brass). Back off a grain or so. Load 10, shoot them at 100 yards. If not under 2”, then try entirely different bullet or powder combo. This assumes the shooter is capable of producing sub 2” groups


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Thank you kindly. I'm starting to get it.

 

[jfk69]

I appreciate this. However, what do you exactly mean when saying - 3 each after finding a flat spot. I get the node (flat spot) but, 3 each? Thanks!

Just get the entire concept of a “node” out of your head. Follow the thread. Shoot increasing powder charges (singles at each level are fine) until you see pressure signs. Load ten backing off 1 grain from the level that gave you pressure signs in your pressure ladder. Go shoot them and see how the ten group. If they’re good, you’re done. If they don’t work, try a different powder, same process. If that doesn’t work, change bullets and try again. The take away is the gun will like a bullet with a powder or it won’t. Chasing seating depth and .2 grains more or less powder will do nothing except waste components.

I just used Form’s method to find a load my .280 Remington liked. It will shoot that bullet just as well from 56.5 to 58.5 grains of that powder. It was the second bullet I tried. It hated my first choice but responded immediately with the different bullet.

Forget nodes. Nodes are for chodes.

 

[TimberHunter]

Forget nodes. Nodes are for chodes.

Well done sir, best one liner I’ve heard in a while LMAO


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[TimberHunter]

Thank you kindly. I'm starting to get it.

No problem, trust me I’ve wasted so much time chasing my tail with reloading. Im happy to help if it keeps someone else from what I did.

I’m far from knowing it all but have been able to get all my rifles to shoot with Forms method. Feel free to PM me and I can answer questions if you have any questions


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[Marbles]

It's just the way he words it. I can't wrap my mind around it and fully grasping what he is explaining.

Others have done it, but I'll try to make it simple. As you have some experience, I'll not go too far into details.

1. Find seating depth
2. Find pressure (you can start at almost book max, that makes me uncomfortable, so I do a 1 round ladder as described above)
3. See if it groups acceptably at 100 yards for 10 rounds
4. If it does good on 3, true at range. If it fails 3, drop powder charge 2 grains and try another 10 round group
5. If it still fails change powder and repeat the above
6. If it still fails, try a different bullet and repeat 1-5 above
7. If it still fails, get a different barrel

Of course, the gun needs to be good, no loose screws and such, so the above is assuming other issues have been ruled out in regards to rifle and scope. It also assumes a realistic expectation (light hunting guns are not sub MOA for appropriate group sizes).

You can always try some factory ammo to see if it will group with that.

The above method has worked well for me on 3 different rifles and multiple bullets and powders for each (target vs hunting loads). It makes me willing to change things based on what components I can get.

Of course I've only loaded for Tikkas and mine have not been picky. I did find one bullet that gave horrid groups with all powder types and charges, but everything else has been usable.

 

[SDHNTR]

So... sorry for this possibly dumb question but, how do i then know myb gun is happy with a combo? ... a velocity node(s)?

Velocity nodes only occur with small groups and are mostly a fallacy. Shoot 20 loads at each charge (I’m not saying this literally) and you will see increased powder charges increase velocity (because more powder = more pressure, which equals more velocity, always) linearly. It’s physics.

Your gun is happy when it shoots a group you are happy with.

 

[CJ_BG]

• pick a good bullet
• see what powders people have success with for that weight in that casing
• lube case
• size
• trim/deburr if needed
• prime
• find load data, the more the better
• pick the lowest max charge or a grain under the lowest max
• load one casing at that charge with whatever seating depth makes you feel good. As long as you aren't into the rifling on a hunting gun you should be fine.
• Shoot it, check for pressure, if you find pressure back off a grain. If not go up a half or full grain. If it's not 223 sized I go up 1.5gr
• When you're at the pressure you want load up 10 more and shoot them all into one group.
• If those 10 shots are in a small enough group for what you need load the rest and do your drop testing. 1.5-2 inch 10 shot groups are good enough for almost every hunter
• If your group is too large then drop a grain of powder or pick a different power
• If that still isn't good enough then you probably have a gun/bullet issue.

You can check velocity on a chronograph or just guess it and adjust based on your bullet drop

 

[Durable Gun]

• pick a good bullet
• see what powders people have success with for that weight in that casing
• lube case
• size
• trim/deburr if needed
• prime
• find load data, the more the better
• pick the lowest max charge or a grain under the lowest max
• load one casing at that charge with whatever seating depth makes you feel good. As long as you aren't into the rifling on a hunting gun you should be fine.
• Shoot it, check for pressure, if you find pressure back off a grain. If not go up a half or full grain. If it's not 223 sized I go up 1.5gr
• When you're at the pressure you want load up 10 more and shoot them all into one group.
• If those 10 shots are in a small enough group for what you need load the rest and do your drop testing. 1.5-2 inch 10 shot groups are good enough for almost every hunter
• If your group is too large then drop a grain of powder or pick a different power
• If that still isn't good enough then you probably have a gun/bullet issue.

You can check velocity on a chronograph or just guess it and adjust based on your bullet drop

Best explanation I could ask for! I appreciate all of you. Thanks a bunch fellas!

 

[Durable Gun]

Others have done it, but I'll try to make it simple. As you have some experience, I'll not go too far into details.

1. Find seating depth
2. Find pressure (you can start at almost book max, that makes me uncomfortable, so I do a 1 round ladder as described above)
3. See if it groups acceptably at 100 yards for 10 rounds
4. If it does good on 3, true at range. If it fails 3, drop powder charge 2 grains and try another 10 round group
5. If it still fails change powder and repeat the above
6. If it still fails, try a different bullet and repeat 1-5 above
7. If it still fails, get a different barrel

Of course, the gun needs to be good, no loose screws and such, so the above is assuming other issues have been ruled out in regards to rifle and scope. It also assumes a realistic expectation (light hunting guns are not sub MOA for appropriate group sizes).

You can always try some factory ammo to see if it will group with that.

The above method has worked well for me on 3 different rifles and multiple bullets and powders for each (target vs hunting loads). It makes me willing to change things based on what components I can get.

Of course I've only loaded for Tikkas and mine have not been picky. I did find one bullet that gave horrid groups with all powder types and charges, but everything else has been usable.

Thank you kindly brother! Good info and thanks for taking the time to share it with me.

 

[Durable Gun]

No problem, trust me I’ve wasted so much time chasing my tail with reloading. Im happy to help if it keeps someone else from what I did.

I’m far from knowing it all but have been able to get all my rifles to shoot with Forms method. Feel free to PM me and I can answer questions if you have any questions


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Bless you brother!

Just get the entire concept of a “node” out of your head. Follow the thread. Shoot increasing powder charges (singles at each level are fine) until you see pressure signs. Load ten backing off 1 grain from the level that gave you pressure signs in your pressure ladder. Go shoot them and see how the ten group. If they’re good, you’re done. If they don’t work, try a different powder, same process. If that doesn’t work, change bullets and try again. The take away is the gun will like a bullet with a powder or it won’t. Chasing seating depth and .2 grains more or less powder will do nothing except waste components.

I just used Form’s method to find a load my .280 Remington liked. It will shoot that bullet just as well from 56.5 to 58.5 grains of that powder. It was the second bullet I tried. It hated my first choice but responded immediately with the different bullet.

Forget nodes. Nodes are for chodes.

LMFAO! Thank you sir.

 

[Frozenlead]

Check out Gordon’s Reloading tool if you haven’t already. It’s a nice way model some powder and bullet combos. Gives a guy a relative idea if it’s worth loading up something to try. The price of components is definitely getting steep up here these days.

 

[207North]

Ill add to stay away from the lands. This isnt a benchrest rifle, the last thing you need to do is stick a bullet in the rifling. I like to stay a minimum of .025 away.

 

[wind gypsy]

Some things I try to avoid:
- "Finding Pressure" - I instead find a load that shoots good at a velocity that indicates i'm not at crazy pressures. Some cartridges/brass/actions can hide pressure signs very well so loading until you're getting smacked with blatant pressure signs is a good way to have things not go well when you get a little moisture or debris in your action. Further, a fresh barrel and virgin brass isn't going to show pressure as early as a seasoned barrel and fired brass. "Finding Pressure" right away is a good way to compromise your brass for future firings and get yourself settled on a load that is going to be too hot in the future.
- Chasing nodes - Your barrel isn't going to be in a constant steady state over it's life. If there is a drastic obvious difference in performance as you change powder charges such that it shoots lousy "out of the node", you're in for frustration if you expect your carefully developed load to stay in the node. I try to find a bullet and powder combo that just shoots well enough without fuss about how much powder or jump it has.

 

[Marbles]

Some things I try to avoid:
- "Finding Pressure" - I instead find a load that shoots good at a velocity that indicates i'm not at crazy pressures. Some cartridges/brass/actions can hide pressure signs very well so loading until you're getting smacked with blatant pressure signs is a good way to have things not go well when you get a little moisture or debris in your action. Further, a fresh barrel and virgin brass isn't going to show pressure as early as a seasoned barrel and fired brass. "Finding Pressure" right away is a good way to compromise your brass for future firings and get yourself settled on a load that is going to be too hot in the future.

I'm curious on this, and can see two ways finding pressure can be taken.

1. For me, the question is 'do I have pressure signs before book max?' I have avoided the temptation to go above book max, but have had pressure signs below it.

2. The other, is find the hotest load possible.

So, my question, would you consider 1 above to be what you are talking about, and the difference being clarity of wording, or would you consider 1 to still be a flawed approach?

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm curious on this, and can see two ways finding pressure can be taken.

1. For me, the question is 'do I have pressure signs before book max?' I have avoided the temptation to go above book max, but have had pressure signs below it.

2. The other, is find the hotest load possible.

So, my question, would you consider 1 above to be what you are talking about, and the difference being clarity of wording, or would you consider 1 to still be a flawed approach?

Thanks for asking as I didn't word that very clearly. I still like the idea of doing a 1 shot charge ladder gathering velocity and watching for pressure and I'll typically go a little above "book max" as well. "Book max" will be adjusted based on general idea of case volume of brass used in the book vs brass chosen for load too. I.E. if its a creedmoor case and book data is using hornady brass, book max is probably hot in ADG or peterson brass and I wouldn't load above that. Vice Versa if book data is using lower capacity brass.

I dont trust "finding pressure" with virgin brass and a fresh barrel right off the bat and would try to avoid doing the first firing on brass with a charge just under pressure signs, especially with cartridges/brass more prone to developing clickers.

 

[Durable Gun]

OK now I'm confused again lmao

 

[Durable Gun]

I decided to try too methods of reloading last night for 2 diff rifles- my seeking ph2 7prc which I have previously had a load dialed in for- I did n570 w 195 bergers CCI 250s and hornady brass in a 10 shot string from .03 a over max and .03 increments below that x2 (2 strings of same load). Second rifle seeking ph3 in 6.5prc which I have not yet dev a load for but has about 90 rounds through her. I have developed 2 loads- 1 w h1000 and 1 w n568 both according to water volume capacity (can't remember the abbreviation off the top of my head). The system I'm attempting for these loads are 3 loads of each increment, 10 loads and ending at max according to my water volume max. So 30 rounds per load dev per powder test. Same bullet 143 eldx. Hope this is a better way. Its not 80+ bullets for one load dev. The only concern I have is hitting max pressure on the 1st shot fired. Thanks again for all your help fellas.

 

[Durable Gun]

Seriously though the post's above about cover it. You also need to decide if you're looking for hunting accuracy or bench rest accuracy.

I'm always chasing the best possible accuracy. Hunting accuracy doesn't suffice for me. I literally chase the dragon and probably always will. A blessing and a curse I suppose.

 

[207North]

I'm always chasing the best possible accuracy. Hunting accuracy doesn't suffice for me. I literally chase the dragon and probably always will. A blessing and a curse I suppose.

If you are able to shoot the difference, go for it. A lot of people are 3moa shooters trying to dial in a .5 moa load.

For those people, that effort wasted at the bench would be better spent at the range.

 

[Backwoods_wanderer]

As someone just wrapping my head around the concepts before diving into reloading, this was a helpful read. Really appreciating the wealth of knowledge on this forum!