Truth in Numbers?

Truth in numbers?
The only numbers these companies that sell all this overpriced made in china stuff care about is the number of dollars they can make.

Dude I don't think that's the case at all, they are just advertising. I don't even think you can say that about Kuiu, love them or hate them the goal of making incredible gear is still there......no modes where First Lite is made, but I've never got the feeling they are motivated solely on profits. Hell even Sitka, the king of overpriced poly and gortex is still pushing to be better.
 
Truth in numbers?
The only numbers these companies that sell all this overpriced made in china stuff care about is the number of dollars they can make.

Find me a company that doesn't care about how much money they are making. Please.
 
I wish one of these companies would just grab the bull by the horns and make a product that is unequivocally better than the rest. Being new at this and putting out this kind of money to get outfitted with the proper gear, it's hard as hell trying to decide between kuiu, first lite, sitka etc. Everybody loves one of them and despises the others. It's expensive to commit to one, find out it's not right for you, and try to switch to another brand. Competitiveness drives innovation, but also drives me crazy.
 
Interesting thread and confirms at least to me that my system works fine. It's a 2 part system, hunting clothes and rain clothes, you just can't put the 2 into one. Over the yrs. I've tried about every so called breathable water proof material out there, bottom line for me, just doesn't work.
 
I wish one of these companies would just grab the bull by the horns and make a product that is unequivocally better than the rest. Being new at this and putting out this kind of money to get outfitted with the proper gear, it's hard as hell trying to decide between kuiu, first lite, sitka etc. Everybody loves one of them and despises the others. It's expensive to commit to one, find out it's not right for you, and try to switch to another brand. Competitiveness drives innovation, but also drives me crazy.

Not being a dick but that's what everyone of these companies is doing. They are trying to make the best product they can, just like the companies that make the membranes are pushing innovation.

Gore, eVent, Scholler, 37.5, Toray, none of them have a secret membrane that they are keeping hidden that these manufacturers are choosing not to use.

I personally believe Scholler makes the best product out there, but you won't find it in camo and you won't be paying under 500 bucks for it.

Because they are all relatively close you should choose which you like better for fit.


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I agree that's what they are all trying to do, my complaint (for lack of a better word) is that they seem to all be improving their product at a similar pace so one doesn't seem to break away from the pack with a clearly better product. From someone who has little experience with high end clothing, that makes it hard to differentiate between the companies when going to buy something. It's not simply a 'pay more for the best' between these companies. It all seems like personal preference, and when you have no experience with either brand, how do you know which one to get. I suppose it's a good problem to have.
 
i get where you all going on this obviously there needs to be some independent testing. But for arguments sake isn't this more if manufacture's selling point than lets say Kuiu or First Lite's? First Lite uses 37.5 and i imagine First lite is only advertising what 37.5 is selling them on their products numbers for advertising and vice versa with kuiu and toray. it's not like first lite and kuiu are coming up with these numbers, 37.5 and toray make the product and sell companies on it's functions and specs it's ultimately their numbers. so we can necessarily blame kuiu and first lite for advertising specs of these products. there needs to be more independent testing!
 
i get where you all going on this obviously there needs to be some independent testing. But for arguments sake isn't this more if manufacture's selling point than lets say Kuiu or First Lite's? First Lite uses 37.5 and i imagine First lite is only advertising what 37.5 is selling them on their products numbers for advertising and vice versa with kuiu and toray. it's not like first lite and kuiu are coming up with these numbers, 37.5 and toray make the product and sell companies on it's functions and specs it's ultimately their numbers. so we can necessarily blame kuiu and first lite for advertising specs of these products. there needs to be more independent testing!

Those numbers are supplied by the membrane manufacturer for the membrane itself. They could easily have their finished garment tested and use the results.

Which is what it look like FL is now doing.


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Those numbers are supplied by the membrane manufacturer for the membrane itself. They could easily have their finished garment tested and use the results.

Which is what it look like FL is now doing.


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Your absolutely right they could and should have the items independently tested but as i imagine a lot of manufactures take those numbers and run with them.
 
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I personally believe Scholler makes the best product out there, but you won't find it in camo and you won't be paying under 500 bucks for it.
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Agreed...and right about the cost factor.

Schoeller makes some amazing fabrics!

I had a pair of pants made with that Schoeller Dynamic and they were my favorite
 
I think it does matter, I think they tested finished products.

I also wish there was a standardized test.

I guess the only issue I have is when they claim "twice as breathable"

I'm not trying to start shit either. The Kuiu Attack pants are still the best pants I've ever worn.

I just like the truth!

I think they do a lot of fudging, like sizing their cloths on the small side to make them seem lighter than a similar competitors product in the same size.
 
It's hard as hell trying to decide between kuiu, first lite, sitka etc. Everybody loves one of them and despises the others. It's expensive to commit to one, find out it's not right for you, and try to switch to another brand. Competitiveness drives innovation, but also drives me crazy.

One thing that makes it hard is how pro staffs operate and what they are required to do these days. They are required by contract to make x amount of post on Facebook and sites like this each month. Its hard to differentiate between those who are doing this and those who are truly trying to help. If you see someone trying different brands of gear, and giving the positives and negatives of each, take note and give him or her more credence than the ones pumping just one product.
 
One thing that makes it hard is how pro staffs operate and what they are required to do these days. They are required by contract to make x amount of post on Facebook and sites like this each month. Its hard to differentiate between those who are doing this and those who are truly trying to help. If you see someone trying different brands of gear, and giving the positives and negatives of each, take note and give him or her more credence than the ones pumping just one product.

I don't know of any clothing Pro-Staffs that requires people to post in a contract. Can you tell me which company is doing this?
 
Here is my Truth In Numbers as it applies to rain gear or waterproof membranes.

I actually could not care less what any company or independent testing lab puts up for numbers. I think reliance or dependence on provable numbers is a way to justify or quantify performance, which might not really exist in truth. The very last thing on my comparison list is the highly technical and somewhat useless-in-real-life 'ours is x% more breathable than theirs' numbers. I really do ignore that component 100% and I honestly think too many guys are buying gear based on some type of metrics they believe translate to noticeable performance differences. There's a heck of a lot more to good rain gear than the membrane used. As in the very apt truck comparison, hp claimed isn't necessarily performance delivered. I get it...numbers matter to many...but they mean very little in a lot of real-world situations. I don't figure many here on this site will agree with me, and that's perfectly acceptable.

I own and use KUIU Chugach rain gear...the original iteration. It keeps me dry. It's light enough for my needs. It fits me perfectly. The cost was far below that of many competitor's rain gear offerings. I don't even need to look at the latest and greatest because the rain gear I have now exceeds anything I ever owned in the past. I'm not brand-loyal. I use what works and what makes good economic sense to me. Those are my truths....and numbers are just a small part of it.
 
Just comes naturally for most who are getting free product to remain loyal until something better comes along. Mossy Oak and others require loyalty and many others as well. Attending shows playing the social media game is part of it all. If it is not written down then do a comparison that favors Realtree over MO and see how long you remain on staff.

This is not to say they are not those who are credible pro staffers...those do exist but they are far more non credible out there muddying the waters. For my money ibwould rather listen to someone who is not getting the stuff free. Their word just carries more weight in my mind.

I know I love the freedom to try different products at a moment's notice without repercussion. Sometimes it's a lateral move and occasionally I give ground, but in the end I usually end up way ahead of those who are easily satisfied with the status quo.
 
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This reminds me of all the accurate media polling that told us Clinton was going to win by a landslide.

I'm sure if Kuiu paid to have test done they too would come out on top.
 
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