Truss issue on a new building, would like some insight.

[Tod osier]

We had a pole barn put up to serve as a garage and we are in discussions with the builder because there is an obvious issue with the roof/trusses. I’d like to not name the builder at this point because we are early on in these discussions, but this a large national pole barn builder known for top quality.

Building is right next to the house and I’ve been consistent from the start that it needs to look sharp. The building is a fairly simple building built by a premium pole barn builder with a national reputation, so the expectation that it will look very polished. I also own another building built by this builder, so I have a good frame of reference as far as what to expect.

Building is 48’x40’x14’ with the overhead doors in the gable end (what I’ll call the front). Construction is metal over wood, trusses are 4/12 metal-plate-connected wood trusses. The front and rear trusses are on the end walls and are supported by posts along their length and are standard trusses without a raised bottom chord and the inner trusses are raised bottom chord trusses (bottom chord is 1/12 to get a little more height inside for an rv-sized overhead door). The issue is that the top chord of the first and last trusses are basically straight/true to the eye, but the inner trusses all have a crown. The crown is not smooth, but a sharp inflection point mid top chord where the wood is joined and a web from the bottom meets the top chord. This crown is about 1” in the 24’ and is obvious from the ground (verified by a string inside). Not only can you see that the ribs of the metal roofing are crowned, the metal looks tortured where it is bent across the purlins at the area of the crown. The issue is obvious and there is no debate that it is visible. The only way for this builder to fix it is to tear the trusses off along with the roof and associated trims and rebuild. I have not said that I absolutely want that done, but I believe that it is an option that I could pursue. To give an idea of where we are at, the sales guy that is the point of contact and a pretty straight shooter said that only 2 out of 100 guests to our home might notice the issue (I’m the 1 out of 2 people paying for this building that will notice it every day). As an FYI the building has about a thousand significant cosmetic issues that they are happy to fix outside this truss issue, this building is not their best work overall.

I’d like some insight from someone who knows truss construction... Is there a truss specification out there on the straightness of the top chord? What is reasonable for a nicer than average pole barn? My expectation going in is that I wouldn't see a crown or the purlins showing where the metal is forced over the purlins. Is this an issue with raised bottom chord trusses or a manufacturing defect (or both)? The manufacturer builds the trusses in house and there was an issue getting them.

I’d like some feedback on how to view or pursue this issue moving forward. I don’t want to look at this roof for the next 20 years and regret not pursuing this, I imagine that it will only look worse with time and not look better.

Best picture I can get, since it is way up there given the 14' walls. Look at the rib with the arrow, the whole roof over the raised chord trusses looks like that, it is just hard to capture in a photo.

 

[huntsman22]

It is their baby to make right.

 

[Legend]

We had a pole barn put up to serve as a garage and we are in discussions with the builder because there is an obvious issue with the roof/trusses. I’d like to not name the builder at this point because we are early on in these discussions, but this a large national pole barn builder known for top quality.

Building is right next to the house and I’ve been consistent from the start that it needs to look sharp. The building is a fairly simple building built by a premium pole barn builder with a national reputation, so the expectation that it will look very polished. I also own another building built by this builder, so I have a good frame of reference as far as what to expect.

Building is 48’x40’x14’ with the overhead doors in the gable end (what I’ll call the front). Construction is metal over wood, trusses are 4/12 metal-plate-connected wood trusses. The front and rear trusses are on the end walls and are supported by posts along their length and are standard trusses without a raised bottom chord and the inner trusses are raised bottom chord trusses (bottom chord is 1/12 to get a little more height inside for an rv-sized overhead door). The issue is that the top chord of the first and last trusses are basically straight/true to the eye, but the inner trusses all have a crown. The crown is not smooth, but a sharp inflection point mid top chord where the wood is joined and a web from the bottom meets the top chord. This crown is about 1” in the 24’ and is obvious from the ground (verified by a string inside). Not only can you see that the ribs of the metal roofing are crowned, the metal looks tortured where it is bent across the purlins at the area of the crown. The issue is obvious and there is no debate that it is visible. The only way for this builder to fix it is to tear the trusses off along with the roof and associated trims and rebuild. I have not said that I absolutely want that done, but I believe that it is an option that I could pursue. To give an idea of where we are at, the sales guy that is the point of contact and a pretty straight shooter said that only 2 out of 100 guests to our home might notice the issue (I’m the 1 out of 2 people paying for this building that will notice it every day). As an FYI the building has about a thousand significant cosmetic issues that they are happy to fix outside this truss issue, this building is not their best work overall.

I’d like some insight from someone who knows truss construction... Is there a truss specification out there on the straightness of the top chord? What is reasonable for a nicer than average pole barn? My expectation going in is that I wouldn't see a crown or the purlins showing where the metal is forced over the purlins. Is this an issue with raised bottom chord trusses or a manufacturing defect (or both)? The manufacturer builds the trusses in house and there was an issue getting them.

I’d like some feedback on how to view or pursue this issue moving forward. I don’t want to look at this roof for the next 20 years and regret not pursuing this, I imagine that it will only look worse with time and not look better.

Best picture I can get, since it is way up there given the 14' walls. Look at the rib with the arrow, the whole roof over the raised chord trusses looks like that, it is just hard to capture in a photo.

View attachment 935678

I had something like this happen and it drives me crazy.

I say tear those trusses off and make them eat the costs. Either your builder or the truss conpany better have insurance to cover the mistake.

 

[cnelk]

The top chord / bottom chord of trusses cannot be modified in any way [i.e. planed to be straight] so dont let them do that.

Id say withhold any further payment until it is resolved - if full payment has already been made, thats going to be a bit more difficult to resolve

 

[IDVortex]

First, sadly. What does your contract say on what you were getting, what does the contract cover for imperfections in materials, or defects?

 

[IDVortex]

The top chord / bottom chord of trusses cannot be modified in any way [i.e. planed to be straight] so dont let them do that.

Id say withhold any further payment until it is resolved - if full payment has already been made, thats going to be a bit more difficult to resolve

This, if payment is due, hold it.

 

[Weldor]

Re-do. I can't ever get stuff like that out of my head if I know it's there. They should make it right.

 

[IDVortex]

If the truss manufacturer or builder claims there is even a slight camber built into the top chord, request truss engineering, and still point out that the camber doesnt match anything else.

 

[Chris in TN]

Where do you stand in terms of payment?

To give an idea of where we are at, the sales guy that is the point of contact and a pretty straight shooter said that only 2 out of 100 guests to our home might notice the issue (I’m the 1 out of 2 people paying for this building that will notice it every day).

In my opinion this is proof, not evidence but proof, that they're willing to act in bad faith to save a dollar.

Stop payment and offer to be taken to court before you pay if they don't make it right. I've done that and had it work in the past. I didn't enjoy it but it had to be done.

 

[IDVortex]

Where do you stand in terms of payment?

To give an idea of where we are at, the sales guy that is the point of contact and a pretty straight shooter said that only 2 out of 100 guests to our home might notice the issue (I’m the 1 out of 2 people paying for this building that will notice it every day).

In my opinion this is proof, not evidence but proof, that they're willing to act in bad faith to save a dollar.

Stop payment and offer to be taken to court before you pay if they don't make it right. I've done that and had it work in the past. I didn't enjoy it but it had to be done.

Hire a contractor to write a letter. The couple hundred bucks would be money well spent.

 

[repins05]

Truss systems can be engineered and built with a crown to handle load deflection. This includes snow loads etc.

Unfortunately, from my experience, this may be deemed a “cosmetic issue” only and the crown will not affect the structural engineering of the trusses.

 

[roadrunner]

The trusses sitting off-center will do that and effectively "raise" the top chord on that side. A purlin placed at that point will cause the bow in the metal. The tattle-tail would be a bow in the roof on the opposite side.

The truss support chords could out of spec also causing this problem.

Likely, there isn't a structural issue. It might be able to be fixed cosmeticlly.

 

[IDVortex]

Truss systems can be engineered and built with a crown to handle load deflection. This includes snow loads etc.

Unfortunately, from my experience, this may be deemed a “cosmetic issue” only and the crown will not affect the structural engineering of the trusses.

But, one could argure the camber/crown in this truss vs all the others if its not unison, its a bitch to do, but can be fought.

 

[Tod osier]

It is their baby to make right.

Agree, I'm mostly wondering how far to push and what to expect. I'm fine being an asshole, would rather not, but I'm skilled at it when push comes to shove. I won't pretend that the dragging things out doesn't stress me out. I also want the building done and they know that too.

 

[Tod osier]

I had something like this happen and it drives me crazy.

I say tear those trusses off and make them eat the costs. Either your builder or the truss conpany better have insurance to cover the mistake.

That is where I am other than the time to do it. Trusses are built in house, so it is on them.

 

[Tod osier]

First, sadly. What does your contract say on what you were getting, what does the contract cover for imperfections in materials, or defects?

I'm going to lose fighting a giant company by the word of the contract. They are very clear what they build and it is easy to say that this is not that.

 

[Tod osier]

This, if payment is due, hold it.

Final 10% is still due. Yes, they want us happy before they will accept the final 10%. But the question is how happy. That is where I'm at and how far I want it to go.

 

[cnelk]

10% retainage definitely keeps their attention

 

[Wheels]

I’d see what their cash offer is to make you settle, if it isn’t considerable I’d make them tear off and re-do.

 

[TaperPin]

That’s a pickle, and even experienced guys will have a hard time coming up with a fix that the builder won’t fight and produce a smooth roof.
Trusses cannot be modified without the truss engineer giving the ok. Pulling off trusses and having new ones made isnt a reasonable fix - nobody will do that. At best the metal roof comes off, plywood/osb is pulled, trusses are shimmed flat with 2x material and plywood/osb replaced. The national association of home builder standards are typically what builders use in court and they are definitely in the builders favor.

It started with the trusses being built wonky - as soon as the crown was discovered they should have been rejected by the carpenters. Many experienced carpenters haven’t worked with metal roofs much so it’s not surprising. As a builder I’d be furious the carpenter in charge didn’t see the crown and know enough that a metal roof couldn’t be installed on it, but most small contractors also don’t work with many metal roofs, so the owner may not have recognized it as a problem. An experienced roofer would definitely know the roof wasn’t flat before starting and most likely would have brought it up to the lead carpenter if not contractor, or if nobody was around from the contractor side, they just tried to make do with what they had to work with. Maybe it’s an inexperienced roofing lead who hadn’t run into this before. The world isn’t a perfect place.

If I was the lead I’d suggest removing the metal roof to be reused, adding tapered 2x sleepers over the existing roof to provide a flat base for a new layer of ply/osb. Most expensive option.

The contractor will probably try to get the roofer to agree to pull the metal and “shim” the surface of the ply/osb with layers of osb and perhaps thick roofing felt on their dime. The roofer will probably get pinched unless they have a good relationship with the contractor even though it wasn’t their fault. Too many soft layers of felt risk dents from walking on it.

In the end the person holding the cash has the advantage. If the contractor was paid he will blame everyone else and between the truss plant and roofer maybe the truss plant won’t charge for the wonky trusses and the roofer will make some effort to kiss his ass to try to get paid. If the contractor hasn’t been paid he’ll make more effort possibly including his carpenters. You now know why lien releases from suppliers are so important. The contractor could walk away, not pay for the trusses and they lien you.

Worst case if the contractor tells you to kick rocks, a consultation with an attorney will repeat the idea that the person holding the money has the advantage, and regardless of the wording in the contract he will be happy to start what may be a year long process with no guarantee you’ll issue will be resolved. This typically involves another contractor and list of subs giving estimates to remedy your problem, some back and forth with the contractor’s attorney and their third party contractor and roofing experts contradicting your estimates.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease, if it were me I’d stop any payments and nicely but firmly let him know it has to be done in a way that doesn’t catch your eye. I’d expect the roofer to get pinched. They will keep Dik Diking around, the carpenters will on to the next project, and the contractor will try to stretch this out as much as possible to wear you down. The contract will often be in his favor with resolution timelines.