Trump: Take guns first; due process second.

[Murdy]

“Take the guns first. Go through due process second,” Trump said at the White House. “I like taking the guns early.”
Trump puts NRA on defensive with stunning gun comments | Fox News

This is not, nor has it ever been, a right/left issue. I cannot picture a bunch of affluent, suburban, Republican, soccer moms, siding with us on gun issues. If anything, it's a rural/urban issue.

 

[toadmeister]

“Take the guns first. Go through due process second,” Trump said at the White House. “I like taking the guns early.”
Trump puts NRA on defensive with stunning gun comments | Fox News

This is not, nor has it ever been, a right/left issue. I cannot picture a bunch of affluent, suburban, Republican, soccer moms, siding with us on gun issues. If anything, it's a rural/urban issue.

His commitment worried me as well.

Once we eliminate due process, we are on a slippery slope.

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[NDGuy]

Scary statement. Wasn't he referring to people with mental illness vs the whole population? Either way what a stupid and dangerous thing to say.

 

[elkduds]

Ur gettin lederhosed n u don't know it! - Imgflip

 

[wapitibob]

Don't worry, he's got Junior whispering in his ear.

 

[Hectocotylus]

Don't worry, he's got Junior whispering in his ear.

“Don’t worry”. Everything he seems to do worries me


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[timekiller13]

Scary statement. Wasn't he referring to people with mental illness vs the whole population? Either way what a stupid and dangerous thing to say.

He was actually referring to people with mental illnesses. That being said, the statement is still concerning. Trump speaks off the cuff so much it's hard to tell what he really means by things. I'm sure just about all of us have had a conversation before where we said something similar, though. "Hey, old Crazy Joe over there is gonna go off one day. Someone should take all his guns away."

What went on at the White House yesterday was interesting and perplexing. It could have been a classic bait and switch move by Trump. Put out there that he's willing and ready to do something, and then when the Dems block his bills because of something they don't like (Like what happened with DACA), then all the focus turns on them as being the bad guys.

I think you will see some sort of legislation on gun control come forward. How extensive will it be? Don't know. I'm betting bump stocks go away. Other than that, I don't see anything else gaining traction on a federal level. State level is a different story.

 

[Murdy]

He was actually referring to people with mental illnesses.

ALLEGED mental illness. If this is to happen pre due process, there's no judicial determination that the person losing their guns is mentally ill -- only an allegation by a citizen of maybe an LEO.

 

[Bear_Bryan]

The Ben Sasse clapback is all that needed to be said. Is anybody surprised that somebody who was a life long New York democrat would still harbor resentment towards the constitution? Oh wait, I forgot, he is playing 4d chess.......

 

[Broomd]

Trump being Trump....I didn't like the comments either, but I suspect that he'll walk them back in large part.

 

[timekiller13]

Access Denied

Here you can read the entire transcript of the meeting, not just bits and pieces or whatever quotes the media latched on to.

About 3/4 way down is where he talks about taking the guns. The conversation started because Florida actually has a system in place where they take people's guns away for 72 hours if they are in crisis situation and then are deemed stable, they give the guns back. VP Pence talks about implementing something similar if someone is deemed a danger to themselves or others. Trump then states that he would prefer not to wait on the court to take someone's guns away, because it could be a long process. VP Pence then says he wants to give families and LEO the tools to take away weapons for a certain period of time until someone is deemed competent (or not). All in all when you read the whole transcript it's a pretty fair conversation with good points brought forth by several people.

I can see both sides of this. Lack of due process does scare me, but the length of time it takes to get court orders and such is problematic as well. If someone is truly a danger to themselves or others, then taking their firearms and weapons away from them as quickly as possible is the right thing to do. However, it's such a fine line that it could be easily abused. You can have anyone involuntarily committed. It's a very simple process. I could easily see the system being abused when it comes to firearms confiscation (because it's already abused now for various other reasons).

 

[Axlrod]

When they received numerous calls that this individual was unstable ...they did nothing didn't even talk to him
When he was an active shooter in a school... they did nothing
Now the government must do SOMETHING and the only thing they can do is take away a little more freedom

They can't make enough laws to make everyone safe
And they can't spend enough tax dollars to make everyone rich

 

[ramont]

Everybody says that we need to confiscate guns from those with any kind of mental illness but you'd better be careful since most of the country has some kind of mental problem and eventually your problem may just be put on the list of dangerous disorders. There are at least 450 mental disorders listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). You smoke weed on a recreational bases? That already makes you ineligible to own a firearm (read the form 4473 that you fill out when you buy any gun). You like to drink a few beers every day, that means you have a mental illness. You have trouble sleeping at night, that means you're crazy. All of those are illnesses under the DSM and if we don't demand that the law makers define what is a dangerous mental illness I can guarantee that most of us will loose our guns. Right now estimates are that at least 50 million Americans have some sort of mental illness and some say that at least 50% of our veterans have some kind of mental disorder. Do you honestly think that denying upwards of 100 million Americans their right to own a gun is reasonable? Especially without any proof that they are a threat to anybody?

The fact is that there are studies (one from Columbia University) that indicate that there is no relationship between mental illness and crime. The real problem is people with antisocial issues;

Individuals with this personality disorder will typically have no compunction in exploiting others in harmful ways for their own gain or pleasure and frequently manipulate and deceive other people, achieving this through wit and a facade of superficial charm or through intimidation and violence.

We all know people like this, in fact, most politicians, lawyers, and enforcement officers have this personality disorder. In the extreme they can't hold a job but most often we identify them as the manipulative jerks that we work with or have to tolerate from day to day.

If you want to stop these shootings then you're going to have to start looking at what makes a person antisocial and studies show that antisocial behavior is on the rise in this country. Unfortunately as antisocial behavior increases it tends to cause more people to be antisocial, the cycle needs to be broken but it will take some sort of effort to change people's actions. This is where things wont be accepted by very many citizens because you will need to empower someone to identify antisocial acts and then force the offender in to some sort of treatment program, very much like we do to alcoholics and drug abusers.

Regardless, I doubt that we'll ever really solve the problem because it's convenient to use a catastrophe to advance an agenda. People's emotions are charged up and they can be manipulated and the politicians and social warriors are going to use it as long as they can. In the mean time we will continue to suffer.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

I am suprised by the number of people who are conflicted about this. Rights are there to keep the government from over stepping its bounds. They are not there to ensure our safety. Violating due process is huge.

 

[mcseal2]

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I talked to a friend today who follows politics at least as closely as I do. His opinion is that Trump spoke to the NRA in their meeting the other day and pretty much told them to let him say what he needed to right now but nothing would really happen. Maybe this is the case. I will be keeping an eye on it for sure. Trump has always said a lot of things and made a lot of promises I never really believed. I think a lot of what he has done up to now on various issues has been good, I just don't trust him. I guess really I don't trust any politician these days though.

Senator Roberts from my state showed he isn't going to try to get re-elected in 2020 with his comments on gun control. After getting his $600,000 from the NRA in 2014 he doesn't need them now. It's not like he will be coming back to KS for anything anyway when he doesn't need to campaign he will just stay in Vermont. I contacted his office but just got a generic thanks for my comments reply.

 

[mcseal2]

Don't worry, he's got Junior whispering in his ear.

I did hear Ryan's podcast with Donald Jr. I liked a lot of what I heard there.

 

[Bear_Bryan]

I did hear Ryan's podcast with Donald Jr. I liked a lot of what I heard there.

Talk is cheap.

 

[Shraggs]

When they received numerous calls that this individual was unstable ...they did nothing didn't even talk to him
When he was an active shooter in a school... they did nothing
Now the government must do SOMETHING and the only thing they can do is take away a little more freedom

They can't make enough laws to make everyone safe
And they can't spend enough tax dollars to make everyone rich

yes. the anti gun crowd, and sadly these kids who seem very well funded by the community activist folks, answer is to remove the guns from all of us, with the promise they will protect us... while some of those watched the killing.

at the very highest levels, their time seemed (top law enforcement) occupied with who's going to win the election and influencing, not even enough time to respond to called in tips on this guy.

for me, gun control is not about safety but who is in the ruling class.

 

[Backstrap]

Did anyone else notice that outright glee on Dianne Feinstein's face when Trump was making these comments? She even came out of her chair at one point.

 

[Jauwater]

I find this odd. Trump ended a Obama era gun control law giving bureaucratic officials the right to strip an individual of their constitutional rights if deemed one was mentally ill by definition of said person not being able to manage their own finances. Ive been told it’s fairly common for patients with certain types of mental illness to have reps that manage their funds. Seems their talking very similar politics. Maybe just redefining the law. I’d assume there is some strategy in this.


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