TRT

[ThorM465]

^ if you take protein powder drinks your not natty, right.

Do protein bars also qualify as ped's?

Correct. 1 protein powders are at least partially a synthetic. 2 you'd be surprised at what sneaks into some protein powders because the processing facility did properly clean the machinery after the previous batch.

You're obviously applying a binary metric "Natty good, not natty bad." I find a binary metric to be absurd to use here. I don't think there is anything wrong with not being natty. I think abusing it is a problem. However, you can apply that metric to most anything.

I took great pride in being natty in my 20's at which time I had worked my way to legit world class athlete shape. I did so through hard work and a handful of supplements. Fish Oil, Protein Powder, preworkouts ( assault and Jack3d), etc. Come to find out some years later Jack3d contained DMAA albeit relatively small amounts. Now was I "natty"? Not exactly. Should I be any less proud of the levels I reached? I don't think so.

 

[BadDogPSD]

Another thing to consider and think about is the underlying cause of low-T. Poor diet, lack of exercise, processed foods, inadequate sleep, hormone disrupting chemicals, consuming alcohol, etc... inflammation at the cellular level can also hinder your bodies ability utilize hormones.

 

[*zap*]

There is a huge difference between taking supplements and trt or hgh. Hate to burst your bubble.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

I’m 47 and there’s nobody I know that’s more disciplined on there workouts and diet that I know.
I put off trt for 3-4 years so you can have a great diet,great workout program and body composition and still have a test issue.
You have to dig in and see what’s going on.
I don’t believe peptides have a place in this conversation because most guys won’t have access and most are all ready banned.
Hell we could all slam some deca and make some progress but this is about taking something you lack naturally and supporting that.
No different than vitamin d.
And eat some sweet potatos,whole oats,veggies and fruit,your hormones will think you.
Just don’t go overboard.

 

[ThorM465]

I don’t believe peptides have a place in this conversation because most guys won’t have access and most are all ready banned.

I get mine through my Dr per a prescription. If you have access to a DR you have access. Your viewpoint on them has become antiquated over just the last few years.

 

[Neckbone]

Let me start by giving the devil his due. The prescription that fixes low T is not drugs. The prescriptions that fixes it is a lifestyle. However, prescriptive drugs may be an important part of that lifestyle. Just like eating right and exercising shouldn't be ignored neither should your hormone levels.

The quoted post is pretty good advice hidden within horrible advice. All of these 6 things are great things that should be done, no doubt about it. However, there are some problems with it.
Exercising regularly - your hormones being out of whack is like running a V8 on 2, 3, or 4 cylinders. You're only going to get a fraction of the output you would otherwise.
8 hours of sleep - That sounds great, but no matter what I did I couldn't do this until I got my hormones in check. It progressively got worse until I'd regularly have multiple nights a week I wouldn't sleep at all. If you can't sleep due to your hormones it can become a viscous cycle where everything begins to go down hill until you're going off a cliff.
Ideal body weight - good luck with that when your hormones are out of whack. You almost have to go on such a severe calorie deficit that you're going to starve your body of needed nutrients and vitamins.

If you're having low T symptoms take the previous advice, but for 6 weeks and not 6 months. You're not going to fix the problems in 6 weeks, you're not even going to start seeing much results, but you should start to feel different, you should see things starting to turn the corner and head in the right direction. If you don't feel better, if you feel like you're going in circles and getting nowhere it's time to get to the doc.

Regardless by this point you should be getting a full blood panel. If you're having a problem with your hormones level you obviously should be getting a full panel at least annually to monitor it. If you're in your early 20s operating at the pinnacle of health get an annual panel, so that when you find yourself in our shoes you'll know what your optimum levels are that you're trying to obtain.

Now that we're at the point your going to the doc, I can't say this strongly enough do not try to get this fixed through a general practitioner. The conventional "wisdom" in the general medical industry is absolute garbage. They'll put you on garbage drugs to get you to the bare minimum and call it a win. The "healthy" range is 300 ng/dl to 1000 ng/dl depending on age. Your optimum level may be 850 (mine is 9XX), but they will only do enough to get you to 300 and call it done. Most still don't know that they need to watch to keep your estrogen levels down when on these drugs. Go to a DOCTOR who specializes in hormone health!

I tried a couple including one out of FL where I never got to talk to the Dr only someone wanting to sell me drugs. Avoid these practices! I use the Frank Institute. I like Dr Frank alot. His practice is in NC and I'm in AL, so everything has been done virtually and has worked great. These type of clinics are becoming more popular and popping up around the country, so you may be able to find one locally. The downside to these clinics is that insurance doesn't cover it. I pay on average $200-$300 per month. It's not cheap, but it is affordable and worth every penny.

I started out on a handful of drugs as we were working to get my levels where they should be. I immediately started sleeping again which opened up a path to fixing everything else. Over the next few years I adjusted my lifestyle and was able to work off all the drugs except peptides. Now I just do peptides about 9 months out of the year. If I could just get my back to stop failing on me I'd be back to optimal health and a 6 pack. haha I can't stress enough how much better I feel now.

I can't say this strongly enough. If the Doctor's plan doesn't include peptides go elsewhere. Peptides are the future for TRT.

If you do 1,2,4&5 then 3&6 will fall in to place for most people. (Not overnight, probably not in 6 weeks) Most people didn't get out of shape and unhealthy in 6 weeks...it took years. It wont be fixed in 6 weeks. No one said it will be easy...

Sure there are some people that have clinical issues that need to be handled with medical intervention...

The problem most people have will not be fixed with TRT alone, but will require long term lifestyle changes as well. The problem most people have can be fixed with long term lifestyle change - without TRT. Can TRT help speed things along? Sure... but at what cost? You are adding synthetic exogenous hormone and throwing a wrench in your endocrine system.. there is no free lunch..

Also…say you get on TRT to kick start things…you’re feeling great. Everything is falling into place. Now what? Stay on it forever? Trying to get off of it will create a whole new challenge in getting back to your own natural homeostasis.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

I get mine through my Dr per a prescription. If you have access to a DR you have access. Your viewpoint on them has become antiquated over just the last few years.

Well my General practice doctor don’t,no other doctor in his office does.
My endocrinologist dosnt.
Both real doctors and clinics.
I’m sure you can get them if you go to a specialist of some kind or a holistic doc that take cash only.
Most doctors are not up on trt much less peptides.
You can get anything prescribed if you go to the right doctor.
My Innsurance don’t cover them and I have 5 different carriers to pick from each year.

 

[*zap*]

I am peptide free....

I think.

 

[ManyBullets]

Let me start by giving the devil his due. The prescription that fixes low T is not drugs. The prescriptions that fixes it is a lifestyle. However, prescriptive drugs may be an important part of that lifestyle. Just like eating right and exercising shouldn't be ignored neither should your hormone levels.

The quoted post is pretty good advice hidden within horrible advice. All of these 6 things are great things that should be done, no doubt about it. However, there are some problems with it.
Exercising regularly - your hormones being out of whack is like running a V8 on 2, 3, or 4 cylinders. You're only going to get a fraction of the output you would otherwise.
8 hours of sleep - That sounds great, but no matter what I did I couldn't do this until I got my hormones in check. It progressively got worse until I'd regularly have multiple nights a week I wouldn't sleep at all. If you can't sleep due to your hormones it can become a viscous cycle where everything begins to go down hill until you're going off a cliff.
Ideal body weight - good luck with that when your hormones are out of whack. You almost have to go on such a severe calorie deficit that you're going to starve your body of needed nutrients and vitamins.

If you're having low T symptoms take the previous advice, but for 6 weeks and not 6 months. You're not going to fix the problems in 6 weeks, you're not even going to start seeing much results, but you should start to feel different, you should see things starting to turn the corner and head in the right direction. If you don't feel better, if you feel like you're going in circles and getting nowhere it's time to get to the doc.

Regardless by this point you should be getting a full blood panel. If you're having a problem with your hormones level you obviously should be getting a full panel at least annually to monitor it. If you're in your early 20s operating at the pinnacle of health get an annual panel, so that when you find yourself in our shoes you'll know what your optimum levels are that you're trying to obtain.

Now that we're at the point your going to the doc, I can't say this strongly enough do not try to get this fixed through a general practitioner. The conventional "wisdom" in the general medical industry is absolute garbage. They'll put you on garbage drugs to get you to the bare minimum and call it a win. The "healthy" range is 300 ng/dl to 1000 ng/dl depending on age. Your optimum level may be 850 (mine is 9XX), but they will only do enough to get you to 300 and call it done. Most still don't know that they need to watch to keep your estrogen levels down when on these drugs. Go to a DOCTOR who specializes in hormone health!

I tried a couple including one out of FL where I never got to talk to the Dr only someone wanting to sell me drugs. Avoid these practices! I use the Frank Institute. I like Dr Frank alot. His practice is in NC and I'm in AL, so everything has been done virtually and has worked great. These type of clinics are becoming more popular and popping up around the country, so you may be able to find one locally. The downside to these clinics is that insurance doesn't cover it. I pay on average $200-$300 per month. It's not cheap, but it is affordable and worth every penny.

I started out on a handful of drugs as we were working to get my levels where they should be. I immediately started sleeping again which opened up a path to fixing everything else. Over the next few years I adjusted my lifestyle and was able to work off all the drugs except peptides. Now I just do peptides about 9 months out of the year. If I could just get my back to stop failing on me I'd be back to optimal health and a 6 pack. haha I can't stress enough how much better I feel now.

I can't say this strongly enough. If the Doctor's plan doesn't include peptides go elsewhere. Peptides are the future for TRT.

which peptides did they prescribe and why?

 

[ThorM465]

which peptides did they prescribe and why?

Lo T treatments. I've done several at this point. I can't stay on 1 for to long or my body will begin to build up a resistance to it. I couldn't abuse them if I wanted to. My best results have been from Sermorelin and BPC-157.

Well my General practice doctor don’t,no other doctor in his office does.
My endocrinologist dosnt.
Both real doctors and clinics.
I’m sure you can get them if you go to a specialist of some kind or a holistic doc that take cash only.
Most doctors are not up on trt much less peptides.
You can get anything prescribed if you go to the right doctor.
My Innsurance don’t cover them and I have 5 different carriers to pick from each year.

As I've already said you shouldn't be going to your generalist for hormone treatment. You wouldn't trust your general to treat heart disease would you?

Your doctors who aren't up on peptides are probably doctors who recommended the covid vax to 90%+ of their patients.

If you do 1,2,4&5 then 3&6 will fall in to place for most people. (Not overnight, probably not in 6 weeks) Most people didn't get out of shape and unhealthy in 6 weeks...it took years. It wont be fixed in 6 weeks. No one said it will be easy...

Sure there are some people that have clinical issues that need to be handled with medical intervention...

The problem most people have will not be fixed with TRT alone, but will require long term lifestyle changes as well. The problem most people have can be fixed with long term lifestyle change - without TRT. Can TRT help speed things along? Sure... but at what cost? You are adding synthetic exogenous hormone and throwing a wrench in your endocrine system.. there is no free lunch..

Also…say you get on TRT to kick start things…you’re feeling great. Everything is falling into place. Now what? Stay on it forever? Trying to get off of it will create a whole new challenge in getting back to your own natural homeostasis.

Yea, at what cost? How exactly are peptides throwing a wrench into your endocrine system?

The problem most people have is a lifetime of being poisoned by our food supply. If you can fix it without synthetics good for you. What I don't understand is why you feel the need to demonize something you clearly know nothing about.

When you take testosterone your body may stop making its own, because it doesn't think it needs to anymore. The beauty of using peptides is that it doesn't have any such side effect. What is does is trigger the natural production of HGH, rejuvenating your endocrine system, and other tertiary effects from this method depending on the specific peptide.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Never said I was,I said he doesn’t prescribe them.Been going to a endo for years.

 

[ManyBullets]

Lo T treatments. I've done several at this point. I can't stay on 1 for to long or my body will begin to build up a resistance to it. I couldn't abuse them if I wanted to. My best results have been from Sermorelin and BPC-157.

Thanks - was curious about the peptides, your experience and general results from them. Some of the info is murky out there

 

[Procision Arms]

Lo T treatments. I've done several at this point. I can't stay on 1 for to long or my body will begin to build up a resistance to it. I couldn't abuse them if I wanted to. My best results have been from Sermorelin and BPC-157.

As I've already said you shouldn't be going to your generalist for hormone treatment. You wouldn't trust your general to treat heart disease would you?

Your doctors who aren't up on peptides are probably doctors who recommended the covid vax to 90%+ of their patients.

Yea, at what cost? How exactly are peptides throwing a wrench into your endocrine system?

The problem most people have is a lifetime of being poisoned by our food supply. If you can fix it without synthetics good for you. What I don't understand is why you feel the need to demonize something you clearly know nothing about.

When you take testosterone your body may stop making its own, because it doesn't think it needs to anymore. The beauty of using peptides is that it doesn't have any such side effect. What is does is trigger the natural production of HGH, rejuvenating your endocrine system, and other tertiary effects from this method depending on the specific peptide.

Compounding pharmacist by trade here-


Tons of good info already on here. From discussions over the years with patients and prescribers, the most successful formula seems to be biweekly subQ injections with an MCT or grapeseed oil based testosterone. Easier/less painful injections with smaller peaks/troughs of hormone levels.



Just a couple points if you decide you want to go down the rabbit hole of peptides:

- be sure to vet the pharmacy providing the products EXTREMELY well. There are countless bootleg and online sellers who are selling at best products that are sterile water and possibly contaminated. Just because your prescriber has used them in the past doesn’t mean they’re reputable, do your own research. Many of the cash-based lifestyle med docs are trying to sell you products, and as sad as it sounds, many price shop and don’t care about quality, just margins.


-the compounding and sale of BPC157 was banned by the FDA a few months ago, any pharmacy still selling it is in violation. Question to ask yourself: if a company is openly violating an FDA order, what else are they not worried about?

 

[ThorM465]

-the compounding and sale of BPC157 was banned by the FDA a few months ago, any pharmacy still selling it is in violation. Question to ask yourself: if a company is openly violating an FDA order, what else are they not worried about?

On what grounds did these tyrants decide this BS? Do you have a link to the official ban? You try and go through a doctor and do things the right way and the gov goes out of its way to force you to the black market. Does anyone still believe that the massive drop in testosterone levels across the western population wasn't intentional?

I've been on an off cycle. The last time I got a prescription would have been prior to this. I've got a tag up with my doc in a few weeks, where we're going to discuss what to do next.

 

[The_Jim]

My hope is that anyone thinking about TRT implements lifestyle changes first...

1. Quality whole foods diet (meat, eggs, fruit, veggies, nuts, etc... no processed BS, no fad diets, real food)
2. Exercising regularly
3. Getting 8 hours of sleep every day
4. Quitting or at least cutting way back on alcohol
5. Quitting smoking
6. Getting to your ideal body weight

If this isn't you, do this for at LEAST 6 months before even considering your testosterone. IMO TRT is not a crutch to help you get motivated to do these things... it is a treatment for a clinical condition that is refractory to a healthy lifestyle. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Mostly want to move this post up because I strongly agree with it.

I want to add that even a healthy lifestyle may not immediately fix everything - it can take months to reverse things.

My free t was low and the hormone doctors just tried to get me on trt asap. I didn’t go that route, ended up doing a minerals and metals test and was full of heavy metals (likely from my work). I’m half way through a heavy metal detox and I feel like myself again. I’m still working on fixing my sleep naturally, and once I’m sleeping consistent I’ll recheck my testosterone.

 

[Procision Arms]

On what grounds did these tyrants decide this BS? Do you have a link to the official ban? You try and go through a doctor and do things the right way and the gov goes out of its way to force you to the black market. Does anyone still believe that the massive drop in testosterone levels across the western population wasn't intentional?

I've been on an off cycle. The last time I got a prescription would have been prior to this. I've got a tag up with my doc in a few weeks, where we're going to discuss what to do next.

Substances in Compounding that May Present Significant Safety Risks

Category 2 of the Bulk Substances Nominated Under Sections 503A or 503B of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act

www.fda.gov

 

[WoodBow]

How many of you guys had low levels and do not drink any alcohol? I feel like my levels are likely low, based on how I feel. But i also drink routinely and everyone says alcohol crushes your T levels.

I like to think that a lot of our problems could be solved by changing what we put in our bodies. I'm just curious how many had low levels even with a healthy diet/lifestyle. No judgement on my part regardless.

 

[IBen]

Mostly want to move this post up because I strongly agree with it.

I want to add that even a healthy lifestyle may not immediately fix everything - it can take months to reverse things.

My free t was low and the hormone doctors just tried to get me on trt asap. I didn’t go that route, ended up doing a minerals and metals test and was full of heavy metals (likely from my work). I’m half way through a heavy metal detox and I feel like myself again. I’m still working on fixing my sleep naturally, and once I’m sleeping consistent I’ll recheck my testosterone.

What are you doing to detox heavy metals?

 

[ThorM465]

How many of you guys had low levels and do not drink any alcohol? I feel like my levels are likely low, based on how I feel. But i also drink routinely and everyone says alcohol crushes your T levels.

I like to think that a lot of our problems could be solved by changing what we put in our bodies. I'm just curious how many had low levels even with a healthy diet/lifestyle. No judgement on my part regardless.

Start going down this rabbit hole and you're going to learn most everything in your diet has a negative impact on your T levels and/or health in general. And it's not necessarily the base ingredients, but what we do to them. E.g., flour isn't inherently horrible for you, it's what the US gov mandates that farmers do it that make it downright toxic for us (enriched or fortified flour). I've been getting a steer slaughtered from a buddy's farm annually for several years (raised on grass and finished on grain). It's hard to explain how you can tell, but there is a noticeably big difference in nutritional content between what I get from my buddy and what I can get from the grocery store or restaurant. Don't waste your money on honey unless you can verify where it came from. The chinese are notorious for pumping their hives full of sugar water, which produces honey but with zero nutritional content. Sugar that tastes like honey.

 

[ThorM465]

Substances in Compounding that May Present Significant Safety Risks

Category 2 of the Bulk Substances Nominated Under Sections 503A or 503B of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act

www.fda.gov

Thanks. I just started the latest Rogan podcast episode with Brigham Buhler and they're diving deep into the peptide ban and this utter FDA corruption.