Trophy bull and a trespass charge

[z987k]

Unless the hunter was really stupid and admitted to the trespass, is caught via cell phone triangulation, or is just an unlikeable person, I’d be curious to see how this played out in a trial. Where I come from, people seem to dislike large landowners a bit more than [local] trespassers.

Yup. It's not the hunter's burden to show he used a helicopter to access the land. It's the state's burden to show he trespassed through other people's land. If they have no evidence one way or another, who's to say how he accessed the land? There are legal avenues available.

 

[Smithb9841]

Wouldn't be anything new, didn't Newberg do it in Montana or am I getting confused with something else?

I know he did 1 episode forsure doing that.

 

[mike.adams.467]

Not sure if this is applicable here, but isn’t there a law requiring that the public has access to public land? So how does that work with public that is surrounded by private?

It happens all over the west. Very common for public land to be inaccessible through private land holdings.

 

[Smithb9841]

Yup. It's not the hunter's burden to show he used a helicopter to access the land. It's the state's burden to show he trespassed through other people's land. If they have no evidence one way or another, who's to say how he accessed the land? There are legal avenues available.

Most people aren’t smart enough to know that and get themselves in trouble talking to law enforcement.

 

[z987k]

Most people aren’t smart enough to know that and get themselves in trouble talking to law enforcement.

If people would STFU, law enforcement would come to a screeching halt in this country.

 

[Chris in TN]

I'm a (small) landowner and believe property rights to be the very cornerstone of western civilization.

I grew up hunting on property where road hunting was a problem (all private, no public land anywhere around) and it really left me with a dim view of trespassing.

The vast, vast, vast majority of trespassers know, or could/should know, where they are in relation to public boundaries. If you can't respect that take up golf or something.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I'm a (small) landowner and believe property rights to be the very cornerstone of western civilization.

I grew up hunting on property where road hunting was a problem (all private, no public land anywhere around) and it really left me with a dim view of trespassing.

The vast, vast, vast majority of trespassers know, or could/should know, where they are in relation to public boundaries. If you can't respect that take up golf or something.

I agree with you concerning property rights. I spent the better part of a decade chasing trespassing poachers off a farm my family bought near our family farm. It was only two miles from our house, but they fished out all the trout from our ponds and every hunting season we caught a new batch of hunters trying to sneak on. We never tried to prosecute anyone because it would have engendered even more bad blood and it would have been utterly pointless. It’s still the state’s burden to prove the trespass.

 

[AntelopeEater]

If it was truly landlocked public land than accessing across private land without permission is criminal trespass and he should be held accountable.

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In some states I think the public would get something like a prescriptive easement and be allowed to access it.

 

[AntelopeEater]

Not sure if this is applicable here, but isn’t there a law requiring that the public has access to public land? So how does that work with public that is surrounded by private?

In some places that is the case, but not everywhere. It is really unfair since the private landowner does not have to pay taxes on the public land they apparently still treat as their private land.

 

[jolemons]

In some places that is the case, but not everywhere. It is really unfair since the private landowner does not have to pay taxes on the public land they apparently still treat as their private land.

How about the escalated price landowners pay for exclusive access to public land? It didn't come for free.

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[Chris in TN]

I agree with you concerning property rights. I spent the better part of a decade chasing trespassing poachers off a farm my family bought near our family farm. It was only two miles from our house, but they fished out all the trout from our ponds and every hunting season we caught a new batch of hunters trying to sneak on. We never tried to prosecute anyone because it would have engendered even more bad blood and it would have been utterly pointless. It’s still the state’s burden to prove the trespass.

I've never had to go to court but I've made phone calls that turned into tickets several times. Some were one-off bored kids. Others were long-time outlaws.


ETA: I missed your point at first, about the burden of proof. I agree, but I suspect that there's more going on than the article reveals, and I bet they end up making the case. There's always a bunch of details the investigators won't share until the case is finished.

 

[Maverick1]

Seems to be some folks picking sides without much for details in the article. Are we villainizing private land owners for wanting to manage game on their land in lieu of shooting the piss out of everything?

If the guy trespassed, shame on him. If not, shame on the rancher/warden.

Fear Monger-ing.

 

[7RemMag]

This is in my neck of the woods. I actually ran into this young(er) fella last November right after he killed a nice whitetail buck on a little section of state ground. It was actually the buck I was hunting for. I helped him gut it( easiest way in that situation for him to keep the cape) and drag it the couple hundred yards to his pickup.

His family has a far less than perfect reputation in the area, and no doubt has committed some game violations over the years. He absolutely trespassed to get to the elk that he killed.

HOWEVER, I have heard mention of a potential lawsuit by the landowner over the “trophy” elk, and I take as much issue with that as a person trespassing. It outrages me to see the number of comments on the original article by Cowboy State Daily supporting the idea that landowners own the wildlife. Most of those are likely "big" landowners here in the West, specifically Wyoming. That's fundamentally wrong, and goes against everything this nation was founded on.

Furthermore, “land locked” public land should simply not exist. If taxpayers are helping fund that land, they ought to have access. Period.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

How about the escalated price landowners pay for exclusive access to public land? It didn't come for free.

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Correct, the previous landowner profited even more than they should have by selling exclusive use to public land and so will the current landowner when they sell. All off the public's back as we pay taxes on the land only they can use. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

This is in my neck of the woods. I actually ran into this young fella last November right after he killed a nice whitetail buck on a little section of state ground. It was actually the buck I was hunting for. I helped him gut it( easiest way in that situation for him to keep the cape) and drag it the couple hundred yards to his pickup.

His family has a far less than perfect reputation in the area, and no doubt has committed some game violations over the years. He absolutely trespassed to get to the elk that he killed.

HOWEVER, I have heard mention of a potential lawsuit by the landowner over the “trophy” elk, and I take as much issue with that as a person trespassing. It outrages me to see the number of comments supporting the idea that landowners own the wildlife, which is fundamentally against what this country was founded on.

Furthermore, “land locked” public land should simply not exist. If taxpayers are helping fund that land, they ought to have access. Period.

No one is saying the landowners own the wildlife. The only comments I saw were saying that he was managing access as if he owned the wildlife, which is a very different thing.

And the notion that you can have private-locked public land is crazy.

 

[KenLee]

Unless the hunter was really stupid and admitted to the trespass, is caught via cell phone triangulation, or is just an unlikeable person, I’d be curious to see how this played out in a trial. Where I come from, people seem to dislike large landowners a bit more than [local] trespassers.

Yep I'd like my odds on getting at least one juror to buck the system. Wardens know this and my mouthy a** worries them about getting embarrassed in Court.

 

[LongWayAround]

It's almost like doing a newspaper story is a bad call if you did something illegal.

 

[KenLee]

Yup. It's not the hunter's burden to show he used a helicopter to access the land. It's the state's burden to show he trespassed through other people's land. If they have no evidence one way or another, who's to say how he accessed the land? There are legal avenues available.

Couldn't put Defendant hunter on the stand to testify. Make wardens prove their case.

 

[ztc92]

No one is saying the landowners own the wildlife. The only comments I saw were saying that he was managing access as if he owned the wildlife, which is a very different thing.

And the notion that you can have private-locked public land is crazy.

I think the idea that you could sue someone for killing a trophy elk on your land would imply ownership of wildlife, that’s the point he’s making I believe.

 

[KenLee]

I agree with you concerning property rights. I spent the better part of a decade chasing trespassing poachers off a farm my family bought near our family farm. It was only two miles from our house, but they fished out all the trout from our ponds and every hunting season we caught a new batch of hunters trying to sneak on. We never tried to prosecute anyone because it would have engendered even more bad blood and it would have been utterly pointless. It’s still the state’s burden to prove the trespass.

Shudda thrown em in the old well