Training rifle caliber/ are they worth it?

[rentalrunner22]

Hey I'm looking to start developing shooting skills that will allow me to elk hunt past 400 years with a 7mm. I have a 10/22 in a magpul chasis and a 16" AR. I'm looking at getting a training rifle to learn how to dial with a scope and understand the wind. Live outv west and have access to 1000 yd range.

Is it worth purchasing a T1X training rifle? Would 22lr or 17hmr be better for 90% range use? Or can I learn well enough with the accuracy of a 10/22 in a chasis or AR with SWFA scopes? Thanks

 

[grfox92]

Hey I'm looking to start developing shooting skills that will allow me to elk hunt past 400 years with a 7mm. I have a 10/22 in a magpul chasis and a 16" AR. I'm looking at getting a training rifle to learn how to dial with a scope and understand the wind. Live outv west and have access to 1000 yd range.

Is it worth purchasing a T1X training rifle? Would 22lr or 17hmr be better for 90% range use? Or can I learn well enough with the accuracy of a 10/22 in a chasis or AR with SWFA scopes? Thanks

I was going to ask a similar question on here recently. I was also curious as to what accuracy could be expected from an off the shelf AR, to determine it it could be used as a trainer. Or a Dedicated .223 would be needed.

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[Desk Jockey]

Welcome. And good on you for sharpening your rifle skills.

IMO I think a trainer is worth it if you want to put some lead down range, especially at longer ranges at some point. I have the luxury of owning a few guns which create some options so will offer thoughts on each:

10 22 - fine weapon. Great pointer and small critter gun. Mine likes all kinds of ammo but mini mags in 40 grain are consistent and fairly cheap. depedning on what grade gun you have, you may need to upgrade the barrel or trigger to tighten your groups. I have a vortex scope on mine that dials pretty consistently.

t1x - love mine. It’s a tack driver. The bolt throw is short but the rest of the ergos mimic my bigger tikkas. It’s also wearing a vortex but will get a leupold this winter. I have used it for squirrels to some small bore silhouette matches. Probably my number one pick.

AR - fine guns. You can train some precision with them but the manual of arms and scope height over bore access are gonna be very different. Off the shelf accuracy is gonna vsry a lot depending on make or model and to get a really solid tight shooting ar you are gonna be intestate price range as a decent bolt gun.

bolt gun in a “cheap” caliber - I have a 700 in 223 that I bought as part of a targeted assassination program I run on groundhogs in my AO. It has a new trigger and rides in a Magpul hunter stock with a budget Nikon optic. It shoots everything from high grade match ammo to Russian steel pretty well. It doubles as a predator gun though I don’t do much of that kind of shooting. If I were doing it over I would have bought a tikka t3x in 223 instead of the remy and splurged a bit more on glass. My #2 pick.

shooting rifle caliber xxx - there is something to be said for a train like you fight approach. You’ll want to start putting rounds through your hunting rig at some point to transfer your learning, but shooting a lot of 7mm is gonna be hard on your wallet and shoulder and will burn up some barrels. Nothing wrong with it, but if you get to the point that you are making a habit of shooting 1000 yard 7mm on the regular, you will be way down the long range and reloading rabbit hole and beyond the limits of my knowledge.

Shoot what you have - if budget is an issue, shoot what you have with the money spent on ammo. You will learn and have fun.

22lr vs 17 - I owned and sold a 17. Nothing wrong with them but I am getting high grade 22lr for about $0.13 a round. 17 hits hard and is more “rifle like” but for me, the extra cost isn’t worth the difference in performance.

class - if it’s an option, look into a long range rifle class. They can be good for getting you up the curve fast.

mentor or cMP - lots of folks are happy to pass on knowledge. If you have a range close by go check out what rifle activities they have. They may even have a proram like CMP where you can get discount ammo and cheap range time. Most shooters are happy to embrace a new player and can be a wealth of knowledge. Just be sure to cross reference what they say. Plenty of guys preaching things thst may or may not be best practices.

 

[Rich M]

I'm not an expert and you're gonna hear diff so here's my 2 cents anyway.

Shooting is fun if you can afford it, can get ammo, and have a place to go.

What's yer skill level right now? Life-long shooter? Just haven't shot distance much?

Can you shoot a tight group at 100? Then stretch out to 200. If you can shoot a 1-inch group at 200, you'll be able to shoot 400. Wind is a variable and it will take time to learn it - I don't get to shoot much in wind.

A .22 or .17 are a great way to get trigger time but if you already have the 100 yard thing down, you gonna start shooting 200 with a .22? It's not gonna reflect your skills as well as a centerfire will.

If you can find a cheap ammo source, .223/556 and 7.62x39 will be better, some .308 army ammo is reasonably priced.

A long range shooting class is a good option - they'll have you busting 1-gallon water jugs out to 1,000 yards in a day or two w your gun, then you practice what they told you. Cheaper and easier than spending every Saturday shooting for a year or two.

We used to shoot all the time - out to 100 yards or so. When I started shooting 200 yards, it was an awakening and i got so much better. If you have a range that allows 200-300-400-600 yards, work your way out and shoot the max distance possible. If you shoot good at 500, you sure shoot good at 300. In my case max is 250 but can shoot an inch at that with a couple of my rifles, figure it gives me another 100 yards of shooting range anyway.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

there's a large contingent here who swear by the T3x 223 + SWFA 6x or 3-9 scope for training. I've hopped on that bandwagon too, and it's definitely a fun gun to shoot. I don't think having just a rimfire is a great option for training with a 7mm mag - they're going to feel and perform very differently.

A few threads worth perusing:

Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting

This isn’t in response to anyone I particular, but there is an up tick in the amount of “I want a XXXX distance hunting rifle” traffic the last few months. I am getting a lot of questions relating to this, which I do not mind helping, but thought a public post might help answer some questions...

rokslide.com

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

 

[davsco]

first thought is to practice with what you will be hunting with. all the dough you're saving by not buying a 2nd gun, scope etc should help cover the more expensive ammo costs. if recoil is a problem, get a brake for it, that you could remove for hunting if you wanted to. 'beware the man with one gun' and all that...

if you are going to get a trainer, then i'd go .223 so at least you can reach out a little where wind etc come into play.

.22 is just so entirely dissimilar (recoil, range/distance etc) from your hunting rifle that while it won't hurt, it's not going to help much.

 

[Reburn]

with a 1000 yard range I would encourage a rokslide special in 223 vs a rimfire.

 

[rentalrunner22]

Thanks for the input. I can afford some 7mm ammo but it has not been readily available so I don't want to burn through what I have. I think I'll plan to use my 10/22 and get a .223 T3x trainer so I can always have access to ammo to train with and it has recoil.

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks for the input. I can afford some 7mm ammo but it has not been readily available so I don't want to burn through what I have. I think I'll plan to use my 10/22 and get a .223 T3x trainer so I can always have access to ammo to train with and it has recoil.

The issue that I have seen with semi autos such as the 10/22 and AR’s, is manipulation. Training isn’t just about going “bang”. It’s gun handling and manipulation. As a .22 a Tikka T1x is a better practice platform than a semi-auto .22 for that reason.

A 1-8” twist 223 Tikka and SWFA 6x is the best training combo made for general hunting.

 

[rentalrunner22]

Thanks, I'll plan to use my 10/22 for plinking training and to get a .223 T3x for long range hunting training. I have a SWFA 3-15 I'll use until I can get a 6X or 3-9X.

 

[rentalrunner22]

This may be obvious to others, but does the mid grade FMJ plinking ammo ($0.50-0.75 per round) have decent consistency where you can shoot it long range with some consistency? Or will I need to buy match grade .223 ammo for bolt gun practice at 400+ yds?

 

[CCooper]

I am putting together parts for a "training rifle" right now. My thought is to build an exact replica of my magnums which are all setup the same. Same action, barrel, stock, trigger, scope, etc. but in a small caliber (6mm CM in my case) to mimic exact aesthetics. It will be cheaper to shoot and won't waste hard to come-by components while allowing me to shoot more and work on form.

 

[KU_Geo]

What’s the general consensus on good training bullet for the 8” twist tikka setup?

 

[Lawnboi]

This may be obvious to others, but does the mid grade FMJ plinking ammo ($0.50-0.75 per round) have decent consistency where you can shoot it long range with some consistency? Or will I need to buy match grade .223 ammo for bolt gun practice at 400+ yds?

It reallu depends on what you plan on hitting. If sub 2moa steel is what you want to hit, which is usually what I’ll practice on at what I consider max for the 223 (~400yds) then you won’t be happy with cheap stuff.

Cheap ammo, If it shoots well, excels at 100 yard drills on paper, which are more effective at training than most care to admit.

The beauty of the 223 trainer really lies in that it’s dirt cheap to load good ammo for, and has excellent barrel life. Makes for lots of practice. It’s also a great primary rifle for many cases. Everyone should have one with a suppressor screwed on the end of it.

 

[Lawnboi]

What’s the general consensus on good training bullet for the 8” twist tikka setup?

Hornady 75bthp
Hornady 73eldm
Hornady 75eldm if you have a longer mag
Sierra 77smk if you want to pay more
Sierra 77tmk if you got ‘em

Pretty much your options right now.

If I were getting into it today. I’d buy 8 pounds of Ramshot tac, 400 pieces of Lapua brass, and a thousand of any of the above (preferably 73s)

 

[LeftyWilbury]

I really like shooting my 22LR 16" T1x offhand at 100 yards at some steel. Will it help me shoot my T3 7 mag? Maybe. Heck if I care. It's just fun to watch the little 40 gr bullet arc to the target and go DINK. And I have about 10,000 rounds of 22LR. There's a lot of dinking to get done.

I stopped shooting 17 HMR after 50ct boxes went from $7.99 to $14.99. 22LR is back to costing $3-4/50ct. inexpensive .223 brass case runs $8/20 if you're lucky. It's more satisfying to shoot a centerfire for practice but is it necessary? I'd go with no. But if you want to buy another gun, well I support that....i should buy another one myself.

 

[rentalrunner22]

If I need match 223 ammo to shoot sub 2 moa - is that noticeably cheaper and more available than 6.5CM? I feel like that's a more functional cartridge for hunting.

Trying to find a cheaper and available ammo training rifle but ideally not $2-3 per shot. Maybe I can't have my cake and eat it too. Maybe 223 fmj is "good enough" for training with under 400 yards

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Hornady frontier 75gr has a good reputation for accuracy in the tikka 223

 

[Lawnboi]

If I need match 223 ammo to shoot sub 2 moa - is that noticeably cheaper and more available than 6.5CM? I feel like that's a more functional cartridge for hunting.

Trying to find a cheaper and available ammo training rifle but ideally not $2-3 per shot. Maybe I can't have my cake and eat it too. Maybe 223 fmj is "good enough" for training with under 400 yards

Cheaper ammo can be functional but I would step up to something a little heavier, like the above 75g. You get what you pay for unfortunately so if expectations are reasonable you can do a lot with the cheap stuff. And as stated most of your practice can reasonably be done at 100 yards where that ammo can be a little more forgiving.

You can get good quality 223 ammo cheaper than creedmoor, and as stated above you get better barrel life.

Something like 6.5 creedmoor is going to be harder to learn on, depending on how much experience you have. I personally wouldn’t put a new shooter behind a light, bare muzzle 6.5 creedmoor until they were proficient with a 223 or similar round with low recoil.


Re the 22lr. 22 is fun to shoot and you can train a lot with it, but for me it isn’t an ideal carryover to center fire. 22lr to me is like a dry fire with a hole in paper. Hardest part of shooting for me is dealing with recoil and noise under stress calmly. You only get that with something that makes a decent boom, and 22lr is not that.

 

[rentalrunner22]

I've been hunting for 15 years with an old 30.06 at close ranges in the midwest. Now I live out west, want to not miss elk at 500 yds and have access to shoot in the summer. My 7mm rounds are very much not always in stock. Decent the .223 or 6.5CM tikka. 223 might be a better wind trainer, 6.5CM might be more cross functional for hunting and better at steel to 1000?