Training/loaner/kids rifle

[Marbles]

Inspired by @SLDMTN Hobbit Rifle https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/the-hobbit-rifle.181028/ I'm trying to put together a rifle I can use for training and with a M4 style stock for easy LOP adjustment. As T/C is not making anything, and has not been for the past year, Encores are hard to come by. I like the interchangeable barrels though as I could train with 223 and switch for hunting.

So, while an Encore would be great, the second best option I can think of is a Tikka in an XLR Element 4.0 Mg. To go from 223 to 308 I think I would need a shouldered prefit barrel and a second bolt. Does that sound about right?

I could start with a 223 Tikka to train with and pick up other parts as able.

Anyone have alternatives to Tikka or Encore?

Anyone see problems with my plan?

I'm thinking a 16.5 inch barrel for 308 with a 5 inch suppressor would be a good set up for my daughter as she gets old enough. That or a 21 inch 7mm-08.

Right now I'm just looking for ideas. Unless I come across an Encore, it will probably be a few months before I start buying things.

 

[sndmn11]

So, while an Encore would be great, the second best option I can think of is a Tikka in an XLR Element 4.0 Mg. To go from 223 to 308 I think I would need a shouldered prefit barrel and a second bolt. Does that sound about right?

If you reload you can save some coin by getting a 22br or other wildcat and avoid the second bolt. Similarly, you could do 22-250 for barrel #2 and shoot factory ammo.

 

[Marbles]

If you reload you can save some coin by getting a 22br or other wildcat and avoid the second bolt. Similarly, you could do 22-250 for barrel #2 and shoot factory ammo.

I had not thought of that. I do not reload yet, but the $350 for a second bolt gets me a 3rd of the way to a full reloading set up.

 

[hereinaz]

Savage can swap bolt heads and barrels easily. Get DBM and you can run AICS mags for .223 or .308.

Drop a little more coin and get a Bighorn Origin and swap bolt faces and buy shouldered prefits.

Also, look at just getting a Howa mini in 6.5 Grendel and a second in .223. Gun broker has some for less than 600 bucks. If you just got one 6.5 Grendel it will kill all you need for a kid inside 300 yards. Two of these will cost less than the Tikka adventure in the end.

I have a Howa 1500 in 6cm and 6BRA with an extra .223 bolt I got off eBay for like $150. I got a takeoff .223 barrel that headspaced with the bolt. I see .308 bolts regularly. Buy a .223 and get the second .308 bolt.

I saw a new full size Howa 1500 6.5 creed for $420 bucks online. Get an MDT chassis and pick up a second .223 Howa and just swap chassis. You have two guns and faster swap and less money in the barrel vice, action wrench, and everything else you need. Swapping the scope is no issue and is easier to swap barrels without it on regardless.

I have been there and done that with Savage and Nucleus. Consider it carefully, because the vast majority of people just end up building two new rifles. Sure, I can change it from a magnum to a .223 in 15 minutes, but I rarely do. I could run 7 different calibers with the barrels I have, hahaha, so be careful not getting carried away, lol.

 

[WTFJohn]

I have been there and done that with Savage and Nucleus. Consider it carefully, because the vast majority of people just end up building two new rifles. Sure, I can change it from a magnum to a .223 in 15 minutes, but I rarely do. I could run 7 different calibers with the barrels I have, hahaha, so be careful not getting carried away, lol.

This is the truth. I built a 6.5 PRC that is almost a direct clone of my .300WM as a loaner/deer/antelope rifle, it's been handy to have a complete second rifle on more than one occasion.

 

[Marbles]

Savage can swap bolt heads and barrels easily. Get DBM and you can run AICS mags for .223 or .308.

Drop a little more coin and get a Bighorn Origin and swap bolt faces and buy shouldered prefits.

Also, look at just getting a Howa mini in 6.5 Grendel and a second in .223. Gun broker has some for less than 600 bucks. If you just got one 6.5 Grendel it will kill all you need for a kid inside 300 yards. Two of these will cost less than the Tikka adventure in the end.

I have a Howa 1500 in 6cm and 6BRA with an extra .223 bolt I got off eBay for like $150. I got a takeoff .223 barrel that headspaced with the bolt. I see .308 bolts regularly. Buy a .223 and get the second .308 bolt.

I saw a new full size Howa 1500 6.5 creed for $420 bucks online. Get an MDT chassis and pick up a second .223 Howa and just swap chassis. You have two guns and faster swap and less money in the barrel vice, action wrench, and everything else you need. Swapping the scope is no issue and is easier to swap barrels without it on regardless.

I have been there and done that with Savage and Nucleus. Consider it carefully, because the vast majority of people just end up building two new rifles. Sure, I can change it from a magnum to a .223 in 15 minutes, but I rarely do. I could run 7 different calibers with the barrels I have, hahaha, so be careful not getting carried away, lol.

I have heard many good things about Howas, but had not looked at them in a while. From what I can see, they are a little heavy, a 308 barreled action is 6.65 lbs per Brownells. A T3X Lite is 6.6 lbs with stock. The Howa Super Lite is not offered in stainless steel, and it does not look like MDT or XLR inlet for that action (Howa describes it as in between the Mini and the 1500 SA).

In all fairness, it is a good suggestion as I did not specify that stainless is important to me as I live in Alaska and hunt in some areas that can be wet. I also did not specify that weight matters as much of my hunting is in the alpine.

Your point on two rifles wins, especially if going between cartridges that require a different bolt face. $350 for a bolt, $400+ for a barrel or $849 for an entire T3x.

 

[sndmn11]

I have heard many good things about Howas, but had not looked at them in a while. From what I can see, they are a little heavy, a 308 barreled action is 6.65 lbs per Brownells. A T3X Lite is 6.6 lbs with stock. The Howa Super Lite is not offered in stainless steel, and it does not look like MDT or XLR inlet for that action (Howa describes it as in between the Mini and the 1500 SA).

In all fairness, it is a good suggestion as I did not specify that stainless is important to me as I live in Alaska and hunt in some areas that can be wet. I also did not specify that weight matters as much of my hunting is in the alpine.

Our three vanguards are in the 6.25-6.75lb range. Howa has some lighter weight options, Weatherby kind of moved away from theirs but you can still find vanguard wilderness/backcountry (the latter is cerakote) models on gun broker. Two in our house are the 20" models. You could probably snag up a vanguard compact for $500, cerakote, and have a shouldered barrel made pretty simple. What I have liked a lot about bedding those actions is the bolt goes straight into the recoil lug rather than being offset. So, there's little chance of flex and binding, things tighten up solid.

I'd still do the Tikka, and what you are talking about is the only reason I still have one and a few barrels.

 

[hereinaz]

I have heard many good things about Howas, but had not looked at them in a while. From what I can see, they are a little heavy, a 308 barreled action is 6.65 lbs per Brownells. A T3X Lite is 6.6 lbs with stock. The Howa Super Lite is not offered in stainless steel, and it does not look like MDT or XLR inlet for that action (Howa describes it as in between the Mini and the 1500 SA).

In all fairness, it is a good suggestion as I did not specify that stainless is important to me as I live in Alaska and hunt in some areas that can be wet. I also did not specify that weight matters as much of my hunting is in the alpine.

Your point on two rifles wins, especially if going between cartridges that require a different bolt face. $350 for a bolt, $400+ for a barrel or $849 for an entire T3x.

Honestly, just get two Tikka. A couple hundred bucks more is worth not screwing around with a barrel swap.

Sell one or two guns you never shoot. I sold off all my Savage rifles I built and it paid for my action and scope. Fear the man with one gun…

Also, with Tikka, factor in the cost of a barrel vice and action wrench and it washes. If you can pull the factory barrel.

Not saying don’t do it, but there is more to it than most guys think.

 

[sram9102]

I like your plan!!

 

[sndmn11]

Honestly, just get two Tikka. A couple hundred bucks more is worth not screwing around with a barrel swap.

Also, with Tikka, factor in the cost of a barrel vice and action wrench and it washes. If you can pull the factory barrel.

Not saying don’t do it, but there is more to it than most guys think.

I'll be the little devil on the other shoulder...

Two rifles means the cost of two scopes, two chassis/stocks, two slots in the gun safe.

These plus $450-600 for a barrel exactly how you want it and you're in business.

Tikka Bugholes Action Wrench

www.bugholes.com

PMA Gen II Barrel Vise

The highest quality, most innovative reloading tools and shooting supplies for precision riflemen. Unparalleled customer service. Shop Now - PMA Tool

www.pmatool.com

If you were going to leave them with factory stocks, and value scopes, it'd be a $ wash.

 

[hereinaz]

I'll be the little devil on the other shoulder...

Two rifles means the cost of two scopes, two chassis/stocks, two slots in the gun safe.

These plus $450-600 for a barrel exactly how you want it and you're in business.

Tikka Bugholes Action Wrench

www.bugholes.com

PMA Gen II Barrel Vise

The highest quality, most innovative reloading tools and shooting supplies for precision riflemen. Unparalleled customer service. Shop Now - PMA Tool

www.pmatool.com

If you were going to leave them with factory stocks, and value scopes, it'd be a $ wash.

True that.

To split the difference, buy two guns and switch the chassis and swap the scope with good rings. I would rather do that than swap a barrel.

You would be surprised how close precision rings on a good rail are on a swap. One or two shots to zero.

 

[sndmn11]

True that.

To split the difference, buy two guns and switch the chassis and swap the scope with good rings. I would rather do that than swap a barrel.

You would be surprised how close precision rings on a good rail are on a swap. One or two shots to zero.

That would be a good idea too. I have found that if I repeat the torque values on action screws and ring screws, everything goes right back to where it was before. The same is true for swapping barrels, the poi is within a few inches and usually much less. When I swap scopes around, provided the old and new rail are the same cant, I am on notebook paper for re-zeroing on the new rifle.

 

[hereinaz]

That would be a good idea too. I have found that if I repeat the torque values on action screws and ring screws, everything goes right back to where it was before. The same is true for swapping barrels, the poi is within a few inches and usually much less. When I swap scopes around, provided the old and new rail are the same cant, I am on notebook paper for re-zeroing on the new rifle.

Yup, good gear, good practices, and consistent torque make it "easy" to swap. But, there are layers of learning.

This may be a little confusing if you haven't ever walked through it before, but here is what I have found with my gear swapping around if I make sure to do it right.. I can pull my scope off my rifle, put it back on and I am almost always within .1 mil but never more than .3 mil (1 moa). I can pull my barrel off, clean it and torque it back on to witness marks and it is rarely off by more than .3 mil. In fact, I like to pull my barrel when I clean copper, that makes life so much easier. I can swap barrels to a different caliber without pulling my scope. For my "secondary barrel" I will zero the scope but not slip the turrets if I can. I note what the offset is and slip the turrets if I want. I can then return the turrets to the other barrel and slip turrets again. In Applied Ballistics, I can leave my scope zeroed for barrel one and then enter the offset for barrel two and it will factor that in when it gives me windage and elevation. Whenever I do this, I am usually within .3 mil if I swap barrel but don't pull my scope.

 

[Marbles]

True that.

To split the difference, buy two guns and switch the chassis and swap the scope with good rings. I would rather do that than swap a barrel.

You would be surprised how close precision rings on a good rail are on a swap. One or two shots to zero.

This may be what I do. I have a good torque wrench. Given the reputation of Tikkas, I'm not sure there would be enough advantage to an aftermarket barrel to give much weight to having one.

 

[Marbles]

Well, solved my problem as I found this at Great Northern Gun's. Now to start collecting parts.

 

[gbflyer]

The chassis/short bolt action setup gets too heavy for a small kid. I have one with a MDT LSS and a 16.5 inch Sendero style carbon fiber barrel. 8.5# without a scope. It is super cool when it’s collapsed though. Very short.

 

[awildswanger]

Well, solved my problem as I found this at Great Northern Gun's. Now to start collecting parts. View attachment 415750

That’s a heck of a reading collection, got any more?

 

[Marbles]

That’s a heck of a reading collection, got any more?

Thanks. Quite a few, though they are spread over the house, and I need to get them all back in one place as I could not find a reference a few weeks back. Quite a few are on audible now too, not the same quality of study as actual reading, but lets me "read" while running or driving and between kids and work time is harder to come by now.

Any particular subject of interest? Any books you recommend?

 

[hereinaz]

Thanks. Quite a few, though they are spread over the house, and I need to get them all back in one place as I could not find a reference a few weeks back. Quite a few are on audible now too, not the same quality of study as actual reading, but lets me "read" while running or driving and between kids and work time is harder to come by now.

Any particular subject of interest? Any books you recommend?

I listened to Musashi again on Audible. Loved it. Audible has some free books written by Musashi and some of the other famous historical people in the novel. I also listen to My Side of the Mountain regularly, one of my favorite books as a kid.

Tiny Habits, Atomic Habits and Compound Effect are very interesting books on the brain and performance/habits.

If you like to learn about the brain and interesting bio/physiological effects on the brain Deep by James Nestor and The Wedge by Scott Carney are very interesting about the brain/body connection. I was also very surprised by What Doesn't Kill us by Scott Carney, Breath by James Nestor and The Oxygen Advantage by Patrick McKeown as they talked about the way breathing affects both physical and mental performance.

I enjoyed Not a Good Day to Die, and The Mission, The Men, and Me, books on Iraq war experiences.

 

[hereinaz]

I just saw that E Arthur Brown makes Encore barrels. I have had good results with two barrels I bought from them for my Savage. They shot .5 moa with the accuracy barrels.

TC Encore Pro Hunter Barrels

EABCO is your source for TC Encore Barrels, both Thompson Center Arms and E Arthur Brown Accuracy Barrels to give you the best quality and performance in your TC Encore.

www.eabco.net