Tracy Stone Manning, a lying Eco terrorist

[spike camp]

@Ryan Avery
Seems like it is time to lock this one down.

Can’t call Cam a douche canoe, but insulting each other, is allowed to go on for days…
BARF-

 

[260madman]

The pic of the Nazis is the National Socialist Movement. LOL. Literally Trump.

Im out of this thread. Dumpster fire.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

Now we're talking about Nazis? Lol. I need another beer.

Also, there's no way the Senate confirms her. She won't get the job.

 

[fwafwow]

Godwin's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wow. Learn something new every day! Thanks

 

[cuerro viejo]

Next vote up is Clayvin Herrera for head of USFG...

 

[zion zig zag]

Twist the facts much?
You are wrong sir..…the legislation I was referring to excluded motorized vehicles On millions of acres.

.

Can you please point me towards the Obama designated national monument that became "off limits to anyone," (your words)? A link is preferred, but if you are unwilling to provide the research at least give me the state it happened in and I'll look it up. You're playing fast and loose with facts to suit your narrative. Prove me wrong and I'll eat crow and be outraged alongside you.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Can you please point me towards the Obama designated national monument that became "off limits to anyone," (your words)? A link is preferred, but if you are unwilling to provide the research at least give me the state it happened in and I'll look it up. You're playing fast and loose with facts to suit your narrative. Prove me wrong and I'll eat crow and be outraged with you.

You are right the National Park Service administration is historically very hunter friendly, multi-use friendly and not access restrictive... Wait that's National Forest Service administration

National park service job is to manage from... human intervention.

 

[wind gypsy]

You are right the National Park Service administration is historically very hunter friendly, multi-use friendly and not access restrictive... Wait that's National Forest Service administration

National park service job is to manage from... human intervention.

I didn’t see any claims of NPS being friendly to hunters but nice deflection.

 

[gelton]

Well, it’s not just American flags that are being waived, it also tends to include defaced American flags and sometimes some fairly to seriously problematic flags flying, too. Also, the mere act of flying the American Flag doesn’t instantly equate to a person of high moral or intellectual capacity. “Vanilla ISIS” seems to cover a wide array of people, some of whom embrace anti-American ideology and use inflammatory Imagery as a means to change the symbolism and implication of the American flag to fit their niche ideology. In some ways, they have succeeded on this front.

These emboldened movements and their undercurrents are concerning:

Funny how the ones that support banning, censoring people, defacing monuments, and burning books are literally the ones calling others Nazis.

I have never met white supremacists in my life but I know plenty of communists and the very thing they claim to be fighting (fascism) are the exact tactics they deploy and support.

One thing I will guarantee that you can take to the bank is there are more open communists on the left than anyone supporting Nazis on the right.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I didn’t see any claims of NPS being friendly to hunters but nice deflection.

The real Deflection... Was you just ignoring who was put in charge of governance and running the new national monument and why it was down sized, thus returning a large portion back to specifically to the National Forest Service management, who actually has a multi-use ideology unlike NPS.

Historical Multi-use/hunting accessibility was the fundamental reason it was down sized. That's not a deflection that's a fact.

 

[zion zig zag]

The real Deflection... Was you just ignoring who was put in charge of governance and running the new national monument and why it was down sized, thus returning a large portion back to specifically to the National Forest Service management, who actually has a multi-use ideology unlike NPS.

Historical Multi-use/hunting accessibility was the fundamental reason it was down sized. That's not a deflection that's a fact.

Please back up your facts with proof. As far as I know it was returned to BLM, so that it could be sold/leased to extraction rights.

Anyway, I'm out. I really don't need to be arguing with randoms on the internet under any circumstances, but to engage with people who just say whatever they heard their cousin say on facebook makes me the idiot.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Please back up your facts with proof. As far as I know it was returned to BLM, so that it could be sold/leased to extraction rights.

Anyway, I'm out. I really don't need to be arguing with randoms on the internet under any circumstances, but to engage with people who just say whatever they heard their cousin say on facebook makes me the idiot.

Try google. It was BLM and NFS( parts of Manti-La Sal National Forest and Dark Cayon Wildneress). Both BLM and NFS are similar methodologies on multi-use and access. Its not hard to look at the forest service map and figure out whats what. Pretty simple process. Unless you think it was all sold to private landowners like Patagonia inferred

Again National park service is NOT an open access multi-use ideology department, even with hunting mandated as traditional use, they can still control all access points. If you need a historical reference look at what they do historically not just in NM but also NP’s.

The National Park Service is mandated to preserve resources “unimpaired, ” while the U.S. Forest Service is mandated to wisely manage resources for a variety of sustainable uses. That was very concerning for many people as it should of been. It's a legitimate concern.

read up on both sides of the coin so you know the entire debate.

 

[Beendare]

Good post Texans.

I did say “ off limits to anyone” where my meaning there was “off limits to HUNTERS” which is why this topic is relevant Here on Rokslide.

These political decisions highly affect hunting….if we ignore these issues its at our own peril.

Bottom line, can this leopard change her spots? I don’t think so.

I’m an advocate for thoughtful management of our Forests and public lands and frankly I’m not seeing it. For example, There has to be a happy medium where we utilize renewable resources instead of just letting them burn. I’m not advocating for a strip mine around every turn.

The forests here in Ca have been horribly mismanaged by the Politician that have ruled Ca for 3 decades or so. They have bowed to the supposed Eco folks, and look where it has us now. The supposed Environmentalists bear some responsibilty for pushing this policy and IMO should reevaluate their ideology.
…

 

[wind gypsy]

Good post Texans.

I did say “ off limits to anyone” where my meaning there was “off limits to HUNTERS” which is why this topic is relevant Here on Rokslide.
…

Which monuments did Obama create/expand that shut down tracks of land to Hunters?

I agree with most of what Texans has said. My argument was primarily about using incorrect info to support a narrative. If the truth supports something than there should be no need for embellishment. I think as hunters, our chances of maintaining hunting access to fed lands in the future is TYPICALLY better if managed by USFS or BLM than NPS. That isn't universal, because my chance of hunting federal lands leased for mining/renewable development/oil use is probably less than it would be if it were a monument..

 

[conley417]

Wish I could say I did Nazi this coming

 

[fwafwow]

@BBob - is there a parallel to Godwin's law for communists or Antifa?

 

[BBob]

@BBob - is there a parallel to Godwin's law for communists or Antifa?

No idea, probably should be. I bailed from this thread pretty much after my Godwin question. At some point things get just too ridiculous for oneself and it's time to go.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Which monuments did Obama create/expand that shut down tracks of land to Hunters?

I agree with most of what Texans has said. My argument was primarily about using incorrect info to support a narrative. If the truth supports something than there should be no need for embellishment. I think as hunters, our chances of maintaining hunting access to fed lands in the future is TYPICALLY better if managed by USFS or BLM than NPS. That isn't universal, because my chance of hunting federal lands leased for mining/renewable development/oil use is probably less than it would be if it were a monument..

Actually leased land(timber, Minerals, renewable etc) technically under BLM/ NFS opens up access due to the infrastructure. Not saying that's always a great thing but does open access.

Obama’s NM designation didn’t stand in their entirety long enough to effect to much access. The last administration did what many though was the right thing, which was a compromise. Protected the core 200k acre monument area and opened back up the 1.1 million BLM and NFS public land to it's previous 100 year historical use.
One side painted the compermise as modus operandi for an extraction mine size of Rhode Island, and solely clings to the mineral side of the house and publicly ignores the access limitations and NPS mandate.

Many hunters recognized potential issue on access by previous actions by the NPS, that fall under their mandate. We are at some fault though for not being overly clear or overly vocal on why we supported the reduction

The last administration Championed increased hunter access, this has a lot of carry over under the same ideology.
Unfortunately politics never do a great job of explaining both sides.

 

[wind gypsy]

Actually leased land(timber, Minerals, renewable etc) technically under BLM/ NFS opens up access due to the infrastructure. Not saying that's always a great thing but does open access.

As a hunter, i don't look at "access" as a universally good thing and find this type of "access" being used as a supporting point to be frequently disingenuous. Just being able to drive somewhere is frequently a bad thing. I promise, the monstrous renewable projects I've built on BLM weren't good for hunters and the public isn't allowed inside an operating power plant. Most of the oil and mineral/metal extraction projects sure aren't beneficial to hunters either. In these cases, I'll take a national monument over a power plant or a mine.

The last administration Championed increased hunter access, this has a lot of carry over under the same ideology. Unfortunately politics never do a great job of explaining both sides.

Despite that I likely vote similarly to you and Beendare, the entire reason I piped up on this is because I didn't feel people were honestly looking at both sides and instead telling mistruths to support their narrative.

 

[cuerro viejo]

As a hunter, i don't look at "access" as a universally good thing and find this type of "access" being used as a supporting point to be frequently disingenuous. Just being able to drive somewhere is frequently a bad thing. I promise, the monstrous renewable projects I've built on BLM weren't good for hunters and the public isn't allowed inside an operating power plant. Most of the oil and mineral/metal extraction projects sure aren't beneficial to hunters either. In these cases, I'll take a national monument over a power plant or a mine.


Despite that I likely vote similarly to you and Beendare, the entire reason I piped up on this is because I didn't feel people were honestly looking at both sides and instead telling mistruths to support their narrative.

Same page, I have new private land 2500 acre solar farm that went in next to us. It's a true ecological travesty.

I look at access a little differently, I'd rather have unlimited access points then definite number or location.