Tracy Stone Manning, a lying Eco terrorist

[Mike7]

That is too bad that you guys live in such crappy places. I haven't seen any defaced American flags, and no Trump flags even since the election.

Also, I was not aware of anyone being charged with Insurrection?

Also, I wasn't aware of any people with blue lives matter flags supporting wrong doing by police, and instead seem to support police who are being wrongly attacked for the uniform they are wearing. I have seen directly what these police and federal officers have had to deal with, and none that I have seen were injured by people with American flags flying in their truck bed.

And finally, I haven't talked to a single parent that is worried about "Vanilla ISIS" harming their kids, but rather they are likely ready to join vanilla isis as their State (and teacher's union) are forcing school boards to accept CRT and elementary school sex ed indoctrination of their kids which is developed & approved by the teachers union and their partners rather than the school boards.

 

[Maverick1]

Can someone explain what this has to do with hunting?

 

[fwafwow]

Absolutely nothing - at least directly.

I believe that (at least within RS) "Vanilla ISIS" stems from an allegation that Steve Rinella called Trump supporters "American ISIS". The member making the claim has never offered any support, but what was actually said was much less inflammatory, and he was actually talking about what someone else said to him. No references to other groups, or cults, etc.

Mods - if we refrain from bringing up Vanilla/American ISIS again, would you please reinstate Alone Guy's membership?

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Trump derangement syndrome is strong in here. Stop talking about trump and trump supporters, it’s over. Need to focus on current admin… or more importantly get out and scout!

 

[Pacific_Fork]

The only valuable information in this thread is from the eastern MT farmer with real experience dealing with the topic.

 

[Beendare]

Can someone explain what this has to do with hunting?

Get the wrong person managing public lands and they take away your right to use that public land.

An example of this was in the Obama admin they shutdown huge tracts of land- renaming them national monuments if memory serves- off limits to anyone. One was a huge area in one of the southern states that Trump reversed.

We have seen plenty of policy here in Ca by the “ Leave it natural” greenies or Earth First types. Logging in Ca is all but gone and lawsuits by these ‘Green advocates ( for lack of a better term) ensures that our forests burn due to their mandate.

The unintended consequences of these greenies is the worst air pollution in my six decades- millions of tons of pollution, lost renewable resources, lost lives and massive $$$ to fight these fires.

Then there is the cycle of drought that we mitigate by building reservoirs to get us over the hump… but again the green types resist every effort to build new reservoirs.

I could go on…but yeah, some of these Eco types are NOT hunter friendly including the couple from Berkeley that trashed my buddies Land Cruiser at a Nor Cal TH as they saw us taking our bows out to hit the trail.

SO whats the big deal getting someone like this in there? Plenty.
…

 

[BBob]

I believe that (at least within RS) "Vanilla ISIS" stems from an allegation that Steve Rinella called Trump supporters "American ISIS".

What was actually said and the context behind it can be found in this podcast at about 1:45 in.

#1559 - Steven Rinella​

The Joe Rogan Experience
5 Nov 2020

 

[zion zig zag]

Get the wrong person managing public lands and they take away your right to use that public land.

An example of this was in the Obama admin they shutdown huge tracts of land- renaming them national monuments if memory serves- off limits to anyone. One was a huge area in one of the southern states that Trump reversed.


…

This is why you can't be taken seriously. Those National Monuments were open to hunting, hiking, horseback riding, ATV'ing, etc. You know what they were closed to? Mining and oil extraction.

 

[fwafwow]

What was actually said and the context behind it can be found in this podcast at about 1:45 in.

#1559 - Steven Rinella​

The Joe Rogan Experience
5 Nov 2020

Yep - https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/is-there-hope-for-meateater.222738/post-2172465

 

[Beendare]

This is why you can't be taken seriously. Those National Monuments were open to hunting, hiking, horseback riding, ATV'ing, etc. You know what they were closed to? Mining and oil extraction.

Twist the facts much?
You are wrong sir..…the legislation I was referring to excluded motorized vehicles On millions of acres.

You arent one of those hypocrites are you?

No fuel exploration or mining is great- except the vast majority of us own vehicles. That fuel for Earth Firsters to get to their rallys has to come from somewhere.

Do you also condone the policy that has burned a large part of our state And wrecked the environment?

You probably support the pipeline shutdowns too eh? Pipelines are THE most efficient form of fuel transportation…now instead we will use hundreds of thousands of trucks to accomplish the same as a pipeline but with Much more damage to the environment.

Think man.
We can’t bomb and threaten the Economy back to the horse and buggy days- that ship has sailed. Now its about thoughtful development……and the “ Leave it Natural” folks have done more harm than good in many places.

.

 

[Poser]

How dare they drive around in a parade waving American flags.

Well, it’s not just American flags that are being waived, it also tends to include defaced American flags and sometimes some fairly to seriously problematic flags flying, too. Also, the mere act of flying the American Flag doesn’t instantly equate to a person of high moral or intellectual capacity. “Vanilla ISIS” seems to cover a wide array of people, some of whom embrace anti-American ideology and use inflammatory Imagery as a means to change the symbolism and implication of the American flag to fit their niche ideology. In some ways, they have succeeded on this front.

These emboldened movements and their undercurrents are concerning:

 

[260madman]

Well, it’s not just American flags that are being waived, it also tends to include defaced American flags and sometimes some fairly to seriously problematic flags flying, too. Also, the mere act of flying the American Flag doesn’t instantly equate to a person of high moral or intellectual capacity. “Vanilla ISIS” seems to cover a wide array of people, some of whom embrace anti-American ideology and use inflammatory Imagery as a means to change the symbolism and implication of the American flag to fit their niche ideology. In some ways, they have succeeded on this front.

These emboldened movements and their undercurrents are concerning:

Good god are you reaching. Do you see racism and Nazis everywhere? Don’t answer, I already know.

 

[Poser]

Good god are you reaching. Do you see racism and Nazis everywhere? Don’t answer, I already know.

No, but I certainly see it in some of the imagery presented by at least some part of the “vanilla isis” camp. Afterall, if someone is presenting Nazi symbolism in the year 2021 for the purposes of inflammation or because they actually embrace the ideology and they are crossing it with American symbolism, then They definitely have a set of intentions and they definitely want the public to see some association with nazism.

“Do you see Nazis everywhere?” As a retort to image that literally uses nazi imagery…. Ok.

 

[fwafwow]

This has gone way off the rails and on a tangent from an already off topic discussion based on a BS allegation (that Rinella thinks Trump supporters are ISIS…).

I don’t think people deny there are still Nazis. But a picture of a handful of Nazis (which is a handful too many) that also has a defaced American flag doesn’t support the suggestion that Trump supporters who fly American flags in trucks are either Nazis or have similar imagery or beliefs. Maybe you didn’t mean to say all, or even most fit that description - but you did say “tends to include…” Maybe that was a bit of an inadvertent overstatement? If so, no worries. We all are prone to hyperbole when arguing on the internet.

In the south I’ve seen the parades, but I’ve NEVER seen a Nazi symbol, and I’d bet anyone in those parades would kick those pieces of $hit to the curb if they tried to get into the demonstration.

 

[Poser]

This has gone way off the rails and on a tangent from an already off topic discussion based on a BS allegation (that Rinella thinks Trump supporters are ISIS…).

I don’t think people deny there are still Nazis. But a picture of a handful of Nazis (which is a handful too many) that also has a defaced American flag doesn’t support the suggestion that Trump supporters who fly American flags in trucks are either Nazis or have similar imagery or beliefs. Maybe you didn’t mean to say all, or even most fit that description - but you did say “tends to include…” Maybe that was a bit of an inadvertent overstatement? If so, no worries. We all are prone to hyperbole when arguing on the internet.

In the south I’ve seen the parades, but I’ve NEVER seen a Nazi symbol, and I’d bet anyone in those parades would kick those pieces of $hit to the curb if they tried to get into the demonstration.

“Tend to include” is key here. I’m merely pointing out that “vanilla isis” isn’t necessarily all a bunch of properly motivated patriots. It has fringe elements that co-opted certain pieces and combined them with certain other pieces. I have seen the problematic imagery employed myself. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

The Nazi thing? There’s so many sides to it. I grew up in a small town in TN where the KKK once got permit for a parade/rally. A bunch of neo nazis showed up to participate and a brawl broke out between the faction of the KKK who said, “my granddaddy killed Nazis, ain’t no Nazis in my parade” and the guys who also identify as KKK as have 88 tattoos. Fact of the matter is, all this stuff feeds and gets blended together. Depending on your perspective, you may see “vanilla isis” as a bunch of well meaning patriots, or a hare group. It’s not one thing. It doesn’t have bylaws and official membership. There’s moving parts and undercurrents. The designation “vanilla isis” was never meant as something to be proud of. It suggests that people have latched onto a extreme sets beliefs which they are willing to both kill and die for and they will intimidate others into submission through show of force: numbers, ideology, etc.

This doesn’t equate “Trump supporters” as “vanilla ISIS”, but seems to be the case that all of “vanilla isis” are rallied around one, single thing.

 

[Maverick1]

@Ryan Avery
Seems like it is time to lock this one down.

 

[fwafwow]

“Tend to include” is key here. I’m merely pointing out that “vanilla isis” isn’t necessarily all a bunch of properly motivated patriots. It has fringe elements that co-opted certain pieces and combined them with certain other pieces. I have seen the problematic imagery employed myself. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

The Nazi thing? There’s so many sides to it. I grew up in a small town in TN where the KKK once got permit for a parade/rally. A bunch of neo nazis showed up to participate and a brawl broke out between the faction of the KKK who said, “my granddaddy killed Nazis, ain’t no Nazis in my parade” and the guys who also identify as KKK as have 88 tattoos. Fact of the matter is, all this stuff feeds and gets blended together. Depending on your perspective, you may see “vanilla isis” as a bunch of well meaning patriots, or a hare group. It’s not one thing. It doesn’t have bylaws and official membership. There’s moving parts and undercurrents.

I’m glad we can trade posts without calling each other names, and I think we are closer to agreement than not. I think “tends” would suggest “regularly” or “frequently” - but maybe we are splitting hairs. I agree there are fringe elements who have co-opted as you point out. (Something that isn’t unique to Trump supporters.) I just think they are the exception. Perhaps I’m naive.

 

[BBob]

This has gone way off the rails .....

Way off the rails... Have we reached the Godwin stage??? I also forgot what this discussion was about

 

[fwafwow]

Way off the rails... Have we reached the Godwin stage??? I also forgot what this discussion was about

What’s the Godwin stage? Can you point me to a dead thread as a shiny object to distract me?

 

[BBob]

Godwin's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org