To red dot or not?

[Terrapin]

We tried it extensively about ten years ago… to the point of machining receivers down to get the dot as natural as possible. We did a bunch of testing on skeet and 5-stand. Across the board everyone that tried it shot the dot well AT FIRST… then we all lost our ability to shoot & ended up shooting way worse. These are accomplished M class sporting clay shooters.

Something about the dot gives the shotgun equivalent of target panic.

Love a dot on my turkey gun & barnyard commando shotgun. For wing shooting, it does not seem to work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kurts86]

I have messed around with red dots on a shotgun with clays and certain target presentations work well like a springing teal or some going away shots. It really melts down with crossing shots for me. It’s not there yet generally.

I am 100% dots for turkey hunting.

I do think it’s possible at some point red dots will find a home in clays shooting. Look how fast handgun red dots went from a range toy to standard equipment. I think there are mounting fit issues that are getting better and I also just think there is a tremendous resistance to the idea in the hardcore shotgun community that has held exploration of the idea up.

 

[kokoji04]

That's a nice pic.

Thanks. I had to sneak the MKC in there.

 

[kokoji04]

If you mean for wing shooting you should not be "aiming" anyway.

What do you mean by that? Instinctive shooting?

 

[kokoji04]

We tried it extensively about ten years ago… to the point of machining receivers down to get the dot as natural as possible. We did a bunch of testing on skeet and 5-stand. Across the board everyone that tried it shot the dot well AT FIRST… then we all lost our ability to shoot & ended up shooting way worse. These are accomplished M class sporting clay shooters.

Something about the dot gives the shotgun equivalent of target panic.

Love a dot on my turkey gun & barnyard commando shotgun. For wing shooting, it does not seem to work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reading your comment, kind of reminds of me a phenomenon that happens when you first start archery shooting. You’re just hitting everything no matter what you do, and then over time when you hone in on all your principles, grip, breathing, etc, you start to realize you’re not that good and then start moving through the process of becoming a better archer.

 

[kokoji04]

I have messed around with red dots on a shotgun with clays and certain target presentations work well like a springing teal or some going away shots. It really melts down with crossing shots for me. It’s not there yet generally.

I am 100% dots for turkey hunting.

I do think it’s possible at some point red dots will find a home in clays shooting. Look how fast handgun red dots went from a range toy to standard equipment. I think there are mounting fit issues that are getting better and I also just think there is a tremendous resistance to the idea in the hardcore shotgun community that has held exploration of the idea up.

Exploration doesn’t hurt, sometimes in the outdoor/gun world we are too quick to shut ideas down. Worst case you learn more reasons why you shouldn’t do it.

 

[Macintosh]

What do you mean by that? Instinctive shooting?

It means that your natural eye-hand coordination does not function if you do not have a hard target focus. Aiming entails lining up the gun and the target, and it is extremely difficult to “see” the gun without disrupting your target focus, because the gun has to be moving faster than the target and your eyes are naturally drawn to the fastest moving thing in your vision. Binocular vision is also important for a target focus. . But “aiming”, which includes measuring between bird and bead, necessarily PREVENTS or at a minimum disrupts, maintaining hard target focus. It literally causes you to miss. This is why you routinely hear people say “just look at the bird and break it”, which is about the most common correct but useless advice Ive ever heard on a clays range. Its also why you hear of instructors removing the bead from a students shotgun barrel.
Theres more to shooting a shotgun than just that, but fundamentally it requires a hard focus on the target, and aiming +\- prevents that.

 

[Speaks]

What do you mean by that? Instinctive shooting?

I dont know about instinctive exactly. But shooting a shot gun at a moving flying target you do not aim it using sights. They are in your field of view but you are not aiming with them. Clays, birds, whatever, they always teach not to do that.