To Outfitters: Help me to be a better client

[3325]

Know how to shoot from field positions and don’t be over-gunned. Be in shape. Come for the experience - the hunt, not the kill.

And, in the unlikely event of a grizzly encounter, if you expect your guide to be there for you, you be there for him. If he’s being mauled, that’s not the time for you to decide that this is not what you paid for.

Google Mark Uptain for more details.

 

[280ack]

Been on a few hunts where the "entitled" made it difficult for the rest of us. In the old days, I used to ask the outfitter if any "writers" would be in camp and we also tried to fill the camp with as many known people as possible, via the party draw system. Share a camp with as many know individuals as you can. Ive noticed people who don't pay the going fare have the highest expectation, the loudest mouth, and are the "past, present and future commanders" of the great I am society! One deer camp I go to has someone called the "Mouth", by many who attend and want nothing to do with sharing a table at dinner.

 

[280ack]

I will also say that we as hunters need to be honest with the outfitter and guide about our abilities. On the last hunt I booked a 1:1 because after a stroke a year before that I didn't want to slow a hunting partner down. My guide was a true gentleman about my pace and we both understood that I wasn't in terrific shape or even the shape I should have been in.
How does the saying go....to ride, shoot straight and speak the truth...... While Jeff Cooper may not have intended this to be used here, they are words to live by.

As far as 5K freeing you from conducting yourself properly, you are the type of guy I want to avoid in camp.

 

[GotDraw?]

You could bet If I paid 5k for a week long hunt. I would not worrie about how I should act.

Wow.
Be sure to put that in the contract so they know what they're signing up for.

Having hired for a high end moose hunt and many drop camps, I can tell you that you're out there as a team. My guides and packers have all been treated as the best of friends, tipped very well regardless of outcome and have become good friends.

Attitude is a major contributor to success, when everyone is exhausted having a positive attitude lifts the spirits of the team.

JL

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

Wow.
Be sure to put that in the contract so they know what they're signing up for.

Having hired for a high end moose hunt and many drop camps, I can tell you that you're out there as a team. My guides and packers have all been treated as the best of friends, tipped very well regardless of outcome and have become good friends.

Attitude is a major contributor to success, when everyone is exhausted having a positive attitude lifts the spirits of the team.

JL

I wish guys would tell me that before hand, I’d stick them all in the same camp together, prepare my guides for it


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[Indian Summer]

I wish guys would tell me that before hand, I’d stick them all in the same camp together, prepare my guides for it


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When we get guys like that we let them choose their fork in the road. I assure you that nobody including a hunter wants to kill bulls more than the guide. For several reasons. Pride. More sleep. Better tips. And more. But if a client wants to treat his guide like all of his employees that can’t stand his arrogance we have a cure for that too. I tell my guys “Walk him into the dirt”. Within two days the hunter suggests a day off or an early end to his hunt. It’s true you get what you pay for but you also get what you deserve and your guide hopes that it’s a great hunt!

 

[Indian Summer]

I guided the CEO of Bank America once. I was referred by a friend of mine who worked for a friend of his… Charles Schwab. He flew there in his own plane. He would ask how much money do you guys want to take me to the good spots. At some point I had to tell him that elk don’t give a shit about money and that he could make a pile of it 10 feet high and set up a blind and wait but that no elk would come in for a sniff let alone a bite.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Tell the cook the food is good and ask for seconds. Even if it’s garbage.

Always tip the cook and packers.

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

When we get guys like that we let them choose their fork in the road. I assure you that nobody including a hunter wants to kill bulls more than the guide. For several reasons. Pride. More sleep. Better tips. And more. But if a client wants to treat his guide like all of his employees that can’t stand his arrogance we have a cure for that too. I tell my guys “Walk him into the dirt”. Within two days the hunter suggests a day off or an early end to his hunt. It’s true you get what you pay for but you also get what you deserve and your guide hopes that it’s a great hunt!

Typically that’s my go to as well, I tell one of the guides to you take him out privately and put them in bed. Then we just say well you’re paying to kill an elk we gotta go here, and we go and go and go,


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[AZ_Hunter_2000]

When we get guys like that we let them choose their fork in the road. I assure you that nobody including a hunter wants to kill bulls more than the guide. For several reasons. Pride. More sleep. Better tips. And more. But if a client wants to treat his guide like all of his employees that can’t stand his arrogance we have a cure for that too. I tell my guys “Walk him into the dirt”. Within two days the hunter suggests a day off or an early end to his hunt. It’s true you get what you pay for but you also get what you deserve and your guide hopes that it’s a great hunt!

Good ole death march. Works great at knocking folks down a peg or three. And sometimes you stumble across a toad while doing so.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Are tips expected on drop camps?

Tips are “part” of how you get a spot next year or first call on a cancellation.

but note money alone doesn’t buy you a spot

 

[OregonSteeler]

Truthfully if one understands they are going on a trip for an amazing experience and not a hunt I think there tends to be a much better outlook from us the client and that feeds to the guide, yes i wanted to be successful but there was so much more to the experience where had I not been successful I still would of been extremely happy, the guide has pride as well and wants you to be successful but if we as clients look at the experience as a whole I think we have a much better time.

Why would someone pay $1000s of dollars just for an experience? Anyone can put in for a tag, go into the woods, and have a wonderful experience. If you're booking with a guide, I think the expectation is absolutely to be successful. Obviously, you have to make the shot and outside factors can possibly come into play. But overall, isn't killing a bigger bull/buck than you would've on your own the point of booking with an outfitter?

 

[3325]

…….isn't killing a bigger bull/buck than you would've on your own the point of booking with an outfitter?

I don’t believe so. If it is, I believe a game ranch is what you want.

I believe the point of an outfitted hunt on National Forest is to have help, both logistically and professionally, and to improve your chances.

At the end of the day, so to speak, it will always be “hunting” not “getting.”

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

Why would someone pay $1000s of dollars just for an experience? Anyone can put in for a tag, go into the woods, and have a wonderful experience. If you're booking with a guide, I think the expectation is absolutely to be successful. Obviously, you have to make the shot and outside factors can possibly come into play. But overall, isn't killing a bigger bull/buck than you would've on your own the point of booking with an outfitter?

And here’s the guy that takes tv show hunting and takes it to heart in real life.


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[ganngus]

Why would someone pay $1000s of dollars just for an experience? Anyone can put in for a tag, go into the woods, and have a wonderful experience. If you're booking with a guide, I think the expectation is absolutely to be successful. Obviously, you have to make the shot and outside factors can possibly come into play. But overall, isn't killing a bigger bull/buck than you would've on your own the point of booking with an outfitter?

That is exactly what people think when booking. However, it's all relative. 4-5k is a lot of money for a lot of people. However, 4-5k is not anywhere close to getting a guarantee on being in giant bulls.

Good outfitters and guides provide opportunities. They aren't one pulling the trigger or releasing the arrow. They don't control the weather, they can't make a hunter walk up a mountain without needing to bend over and suck air.

 

[String&stick]

Why would someone pay $1000s of dollars just for an experience? Anyone can put in for a tag, go into the woods, and have a wonderful experience. If you're booking with a guide, I think the expectation is absolutely to be successful. Obviously, you have to make the shot and outside factors can possibly come into play. But overall, isn't killing a bigger bull/buck than you would've on your own the point of booking with an outfitter?

I'm gonna go with no that's not the point. Sure it might be the hope! But it's not the point. Typically when you hire a guide you are hiring them for one of a few reasons:
1. Their experience and knowledge of the area. (Your an out of states, you can't get there to scout, you can't tell the difference between a legal 4 pt bull and an illegal 3pt.)
2. Access to private land
3. All of the above.

Most of the time you hire a guide for their knowledge. They live, work, sweat, and bleed in the area you're going for probably a minimum of 6 months a year. And they have been there for years. . . This cuts the learning curve way down, puts you "on" elk, and makes your 5 days of hunting similar to 14+ for a guy with a couple years in a unit. They also help pack out!

Size of the animal is very area dependent. Now if you pay a guide that has 30,000 acres of private ranch bordering public, sure your gonna pick over elk and find a toad. But if you pay a guide for a public land hunt, there's gonna be a public land diy guy that kills a bigger bull than you somewhere, but that's not the point. Going from 10% success to 65-75% success and being "on" elk is what you're paying for.

 

[oldman]

I have guided and been guided many times in many different places fishing and hunting. Couple of observations:
-This is the hunters hunt and adventure you are there to assist.
-Set down with the hunter and yourself and discuss in detail the hunters expectation and yours prior to the start.
-As an outfitter don't oversell your service. Be up front and real. Overselling to entice the hunter to book sets both up for a disappointing experience.
- When in the field set your pace to match the hunter's. This is not an athletic completion. You may have been hunting for days everyday, the hunter is probably doing their best. You prodding or bitching is not going to add to the positive experience.
-First time hunters going on an outfitted hunt probably have their expectations set based on hunting videos, guide promotions and their dreams...expect it. Being kind and positive does not cost anything.
-When the hunter is a jerk patiently let them know they are. If you as a guide are a jerk find another job !!
-I have ended a couple of hunts early because of the above. Biggest thing to me is a hunter who thinks because they have paid a fee that they own the place. They are a guest, treat them like it but remember you solicited or accepted their fees and you are expected to provide what was promised.
-Tips: means "to insure promptness" Don't expect unless you have earned and the n most hunters will be generous.

 

[fwafwow]

I'm not a guide, but reading some of the above posts reminds me of The Golden Rule, which should (IMHO) apply in all circumstances. Just because (a) you are the CEO of a big company, or (b) you are paying what you think to be a lot of money, doesn't change the maxim.

 

[tdhanses]

Why would someone pay $1000s of dollars just for an experience? Anyone can put in for a tag, go into the woods, and have a wonderful experience. If you're booking with a guide, I think the expectation is absolutely to be successful. Obviously, you have to make the shot and outside factors can possibly come into play. But overall, isn't killing a bigger bull/buck than you would've on your own the point of booking with an outfitter?

For me it isn’t I guess when I truly look at it. It’s a completely different experience then diy hunting which is all I’ve ever done.

In the end being successful is just icing on the cake, diy or guided on public land.

 

[Thess87]

Have confidence in your decision to go where your going. Be positive, trust your guide. And if your guide deserves it (meaning if he was knowledgeable and worked hard for you. Not solely if you killed) for the love of god give them a good tip. Seems like the last few years people have got really bad about not tipping much.