"Tikka's just don't shoot good" - Gunwerks podcast

[Middleofnowhere]

Tikka fanboys are obnoxious online.
I’m sure the rifles shoot fine, but there is a strange cult like following. The stocks feel cheap and the rifles are ugly.
With all the quality American made rifles, I don’t understand the desire to send $$ overseas and own a foreign made rifle...

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

What is the proper way to shoot a group? Does the approach change if you have a bull barrel versus a thin barrel? Do you take X number of shots back to back? Do you let the barrel completely cool down between shots? What is the minimum number of shots? All of these factors, and more, can contribute to group size. When folks state their group size, many of these items are not usually provided.

This is my opinion solely from a hunting perspective:

If your first (and potentially second) cold bore shot is on at all expected distances (minus the wind), then stop chasing group size on a regular basis. When hunting how often does an animal stand still for you to get 5 shots off? You'll get one shot, maybe a second one, and if lucky the target will give you a Texas heart shot opportunity as it runs away.

Focus on on mimicking hunting conditions. Shoot off your pack (both vertical and horizontal), shoot off a rock, shoot off a fence post, shoot off a tripod, shoot off a spotting scope, shoot with rocks in uncomfortable places, etc. Focus on reducing the time it takes to identify a target, range it, grab your firearm, get your crosshairs on the target, get a clean shot off that hits the "vitals", chamber another round, and get back on target ready to take the second shot if the "target" were to get up again. This will do more to improve your success at hunting than chasing that addition 0.1" on your group size.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Tikka fanboys are obnoxious online.
I’m sure the rifles shoot fine, but there is a strange cult like following. The stocks feel cheap and the rifles are ugly.
With all the quality American made rifles, I don’t understand the desire to send $$ overseas and own a foreign made rifle...

I have never been called a fanboy before------kind a like it. But i tell you who doesn't like it, all those dead animals.

Randy

 

[Rob5589]

Tikka fanboys are obnoxious online.
I’m sure the rifles shoot fine, but there is a strange cult like following. The stocks feel cheap and the rifles are ugly.
With all the quality American made rifles, I don’t understand the desire to send $$ overseas and own a foreign made rifle...

Which large production rifles are you referring to?

 

[Tahoe1305]

Interesting thread to read. Thinking back to the OPs question though, it appears to have been answered through it all depending on your intended use.

If you want a great rifle that is probably a better long range hunter vs a competition gun then tikka is a great choice.

If you need single hole precision than you should spend $6k+ And hope you choose well. Otherwise you’ll have to settle for 0.5MOA maybe a bit worse in the tikka.

I personally think my tikka meets all my needs for $750. But someday when I need to start shooting zombies in the eyeballs at 800yds I’ll buy a true custom rifle.

 

[JeffRaines]

Which large production rifles are you referring to?

I was wondering the same thing. I don’t think there’s anything made in America that comes close to Tikka quality in that price range. Savage isn’t bad, but they’re a far cry from Tikka. Remington isn’t in the same ballpark. Who else am I missing?

 

[cmahoney]

I was wondering the same thing. I don’t think there’s anything made in America that comes close to Tikka quality in that price range. Savage isn’t bad, but they’re a far cry from Tikka. Remington isn’t in the same ballpark. Who else am I missing?

The Thompson’s ventures and icons are close. I have an Icon in .243 that I picked up used and it’s an awesome sub MOA rifle. I put a trigger spring in it just like my Tikka and it cleaned it up about the same. The receiver rail that works with normal rings is a plus too. I am surprised they aren’t more popular.

I’m not saying they are better than Tikka’s but close in my experience. The negative is the lack of aftermarket stuff, specifically stocks.


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[EastMT]

I think it’s ok to not like tikkas as just a personal taste, but they shoot well on average with a rare lemon.

I’m not a fan and won’t buy anymore, but that’s not bad talking them, just not my taste of rifle.

 

[Sled]

Then add in the fact that if a rifle is a .5 MOA gun at 100 yards, shouldn’t it hit .5 MOA targets on demand at 100 yards?

depends on if the gun is accurate and the shooter is accurate under the conditions they are shooting in. after load development i enjoy the precision out of many of my rifles but accuracy is what i chase.

i do see your point though. maybe people can stipulate their gun is 3 shot sub moa capable.

 

[Formidilosus]

What do you think there is about a tikka action that makes them better at feeding than these 700 pattern customs? I see you shoot tikkas in chassis with aics mags, these same chassis have 700 inlets so it must be something in the bolt or feed lip design?

How are tikka plunger ejectors and sako extractors more reliable on a tikka than on an American custom?

First, I’m not an engineer. I’m a user that sees enough broken and failed equipment that patterns emerge.

The problem with most custom actions is that they are building them like bench-rest actions. Rifles like the AI and Sako TRG (T3) were engineered from the start to work in filthy conditions, and then made to function smoothly. Why each works is different I’m sure, but they were specifically made to feed, fire, and extract in ice and sand.
We don’t have anyone designing or making purpose built field rifles. There’re all chasing the same theme. The only one that seems to be trying to break that is ARC. The Mausingfield was designed with function first, however it has the Achilles heel of them all- the trigger.

Then there is “smoothness”. What that really means is bolt binding. Bolt binding happens when you run the bolt fast and it sticks- usually at the rearmost position. It’s caused by putting lateral pressure on the handle and not straight forward. Almost every American made rifle action does this. I’m sure why each does so varies, however they all do (or at lest the ones I’ve used). Universally European rifles do not. But Europeans shoot driven game and shoot speed competitions with bolt rifles and to them how the action functions and feels in use matters.


Does that matter to most people? Probably not. If you’re the person that shoots a perfectly immaculate rifle, slowly chambers a round, fires a shot, slowly ejects the case, catching it before it can hit the ground... you probably will never notice. But if were on a backpack hunting site, which means field rifles and you can totally disable a rifles function with a couple ounces of water that freezes... I wouldn’t say it’s “better”.

What do you consider a good 5 shot group at 100 yards for a hunter? I have chased the internet numbers and would have to agree that a lot more people online are shooting these 1/2" groups than are in real life. With my lighter weight 300 winmag I can shoot consistent 1.5" and under 5 shots group at 100 including the 1 round which always seems to wreck the group, this is always prone with bipod/rear bag. Sometimes I can call that bad shot and sometimes I cannot. At what point should I stop chasing the group and start working on field position and longer range shooting?

How far are you truly going to shoot that LW 300WM at deer sized animals?

 

[carter33]

[QUOTE="Formidilosus, post: 1603800, member: 8582"
How far are you truly going to shoot that LW 300WM at deer sized animals?
[/QUOTE]

I hunt in Alaska and with this rifle and I have only taken a caribou under 200 and a moose at about 340. Both kills went very well.
The caribou was a fast set up on a steep downslope but I felt more comfortable on the longer moose shot, even though the slope was about the same but I had time to take a few dry fire runs.

I want to be confident on game to 500 yards to be honest. I have shot the 300wm to 1000 yards and had a great group but that was with zero wind.

I am attending a long range shooting course in June as long as the pandemic doesn’t screw it up.

Basically I am curious if I should stop chasing the group or if I do need to work a little more on my form first? Hoping this course corrects my inconsistencies and I can stop worrying about it.

 

[Formidilosus]

I want to be confident on game to 500 yards to be honest.

Basically I am curious if I should stop chasing the group or if I do need to work a little more on my form first? Hoping this course corrects my inconsistencies and I can stop worrying about it.

Put a two inch dot up at 100 yards. Shoot ten rounds. If all of them are inside the dot, got the rifle sub forum and find the post “Equipment versus Practice”. Precision isn’t why you’ll fail.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

A lot of guys say mine shoots “blah blah” moa at “blah blah” yardage but never post evidence results. Everyone on the internet is the best shooter they know too.

I don’t have a ton of experience with Tikkas but I’ve shot and owned many of their parent company (Sako) rifles over the years. They just plain shoot and perform well in all conditions. I’ve shot Sakos from -15 Fahrenheit and deep snow in Northern Minnesota to 120 Fahrenheit sand desert down in Yuma, AZ. The actions and barrels work flawlessly even after heavy and less than ideal conditions use.

As an example with actual results, here is a photo of my last 6 shot group (1 full magazine) with my Sako model 85 in .260. This was a 200 yard recheck of zero from a few weeks ago. It’s about 7/8” vertical on the longest diagonal and about 3/8” horizontal. It could have shot better if I did my part and didn’t rush it but it was getting dark on me. I also just laid prone in the grass with a bipod and didn’t have a rear rest. It was a quick recheck but the results are decent and a real world example of Sako/Tikka dependability. I’ll be rechecking it again tomorrow since it’s seen a lot of miles bouncing in the truck and atv since then. Also quite a few rounds have gone through it since then (somewhere around 300) and it got cleaned this evening.

 

[Cactus kid]

The Mausingfield was designed with function first, however it has the Achilles heel of them all- the trigger.

Any aftermarket triggers for the 700 that do work? TT diamond? Geissele?

 

[Hiwayman92]

Most Tikkas will shoot better then their owners can.

Sounds like they are trying to put them down to make themselves feel better about selling $10k rifle packages. Davidson is a tool.


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I couldn’t say it better myself. I’ve had some factory and some semi custom Tikkas and they all shoot lights out. Great trigger, good extractor, smooth action, side bolt release, etc. the only thing they’re missing is a longer mag box and faster twist.

Why anyone would pay for a Gunwerks gun, when you could have a gunsmith put together the same dang gun with as good or better components for half the price, I can’t understand. I think they bank on the rich and non-experienced guys that want to shoot “1400 yards out of the box...”


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[Formidilosus]

Any aftermarket triggers for the 700 that do work? TT diamond? Geissele?

The Geissele and TT are the two best R700 triggers from a reliability standpoint. Given both are correctly designed a true two stage will always be more reliable in adverse conditions than a single stage. The trigger with more overtravel will be more reliable in adverse conditions (not to mention helping you shoot better).

I don’t want to overstate this- most people with a good action and a good trigger will not have problems because they’re not stressing the system. However every year someone is talking about a rifle that wouldn’t fire due to ice/snow or sand. It’s just something to take into account.

 

[Rifles And More]

This is a golden time for factory rifles an LR shooting. I think back in the day, customs may have been the way to go if you wanted to get in the game, but now it is accessible for all.

I love me some Tikka - I have four (.308 x2 , 30-06, 6.5x55). Bottom line, they are easy and reliable. Combine with a solid scope and you can really do some things. I can make them shoot bugholes at 100 yards, but I realized that pursuit was never ending.
I gained more by settling on a 1MOA-ish load and doing some work at distance. That happens fast with the Tikka, whether hand loading or choosing factory ammo.

I also dabbled into the Ruger Americans, setting aside my Tikka bias. Within the first box of ammo I was making 1K hits on the gong with a 6.5CM and a SWFA 3x9. This was my first experience with the 6.5 CM - calling your own misses in the scope made quick work at long distance.

I attend the rifle competitions locally from time to time. I am usually in the middle of the pack when it comes to the final rankings. The top competitors have $$$$ equipment and some that are below me have the same $$$$ equipment. The difference is trigger time. Knowing your dope, trusting your equipment and shoot, shoot, shoot. A 6K dollar rifle will not get you a top 10 finish.

Lot of babbling - All I'm saying is get a rifle, get a good optic, get a MOA load and go shoot. Go shoot a lot.

 

[unclericco]

I agree the stocks are terrible, and the factory rifles pretty plain but I own a couple of Tikkas that I turned into my 2 favorite rifles in my safe as semi customs. I do not think they are plain now and are quite handsome in fact!

I talked to the Gunwerks guys at SHOT this year and learned they were now offering Clymer stocks in other manufacturers inletting. I asked if they offered any for Tikkas and I felt so judged as they laughed off my ridiculous question "uh no". They don't want to bother with us peasants. Hahaha!

 

[JeffRaines]

I gained more by settling on a 1MOA-ish load and doing some work at distance.

...

All I'm saying is get a rifle, get a good optic, get a MOA load and go shoot. Go shoot a lot.

I agree with this as well.

I'm not saying you shouldn't strive for accuracy, but I think a lot of hunters overspend time and money trying to chase a .5MOA load(insert .7, .3, whatever arbitrary number), whether its in reloading equipment and needless steps, factory ammo, paying someone to develop loads, etc. when a true 1 MOA load/rifle will kill to 800-1000 yards(chambering/bullet selection/shooter skill aside).

Group size makes no difference when an animal is standing at 500 yards broadside. That first shot is going to send them running unless you anchor them... that first shot needs to go where you want it to go 99% of the time, or you're wasting time. While an accurate load is surely part of that equation, a .3 moa load isn't going to pull the trigger for you, it isn't going to set you up correctly, its a small part of the whole... a guy with the aforementioned .3 moa load who only shoots 3 shots at the range once a year and then goes hunting is going to be far less effective(from a shooting standpoint) than the guy with a 1 MOA load who shoots hundred of rounds a year at hunting distances in varying conditions.

Not to mention the other benefits the 1 MOA guy will likely have, like more money in his pocket for tags, more time to hunt, more ammo for shooting practice, the list goes on.

Obviously there are a handful of ELR guys(>1000 yard hunters) for whom the extended load development and chasing will definitely benefit, but thats a huge exception rather than the rule.

 

[TxxAgg]

This thread cost me $600 haha