Tikka vs Springfield vs Seekings

[Dbevans]

I’m in the market for a new rifle and have of course been researching and I am not too sure how to continue.

Use case is Alaska big game rifle that can handle the weather.

Tikka rough tech ember in a manners eh1 getting the bolt and bareel cerakoted
Tikka t3x stainless same as above

Springfield waypoint 2020 with the non adjustable stock

Or a seekings ph2 or element if I feel rich

300 wsm or wm in the tikkas
300 wm in the way point
300 wm or 7 prc in the seekings.

I currently have a browning xbolt pro but I am not a fan of it. Are there any other suggestions?


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[grfox92]

I’m in the market for a new rifle and have of course been researching and I am not too sure how to continue.

Use case is Alaska big game rifle that can handle the weather.

Tikka rough tech ember in a manners eh1 getting the bolt and bareel cerakoted
Tikka t3x stainless same as above

Springfield waypoint 2020 with the non adjustable stock

Or a seekings ph2 or element if I feel rich

300 wsm or wm in the tikkas
300 wm in the way point
300 wm or 7 prc in the seekings.

I currently have a browning xbolt pro but I am not a fan of it. Are there any other suggestions?


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Do you reload? If so the Tikka Roughtech Ember on 300wsm. It's stainless so I wouldn't cerekot unless it's the esthetic that you are looking for. Put into a nice stock like the Manners it would be the last rifle you ever need. I know some people are awaiting the 300wsm in the updated 10 twist. But according to ballistic calculators the 11 twist will stabilize 215 Bergers of 208 ELD M and I can't imagining hunting anything that a 208 ELDM wouldn't destroy.

If you don't reload, The Seekins in 7prc shooting 180 ELDM factory ammo. Buy a case at a time because hornady sucks lot to lot.

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[Dbevans]

Do you reload? If so the Tikka Roughtech Ember on 300wsm. It's stainless so I wouldn't cerekot unless it's the esthetic that you are looking for. Put into a nice stock like the Manners it would be the last rifle you ever need. I know some people are awaiting the 300wsm in the updated 10 twist. But according to ballistic calculators the 11 twist will stabilize 215 Bergers of 208 ELD M and I can't imagining hunting anything that a 208 ELDM wouldn't destroy.

If you don't reload, The Seekins in 7prc shooting 180 ELDM factory ammo. Buy a case at a time because hornady sucks lot to lot.

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I don’t reload but I have 10 boxes of barnes vortx 165 ttsx and a few boxes of 200 grain eldx


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[grfox92]

I don’t reload but I have 10 boxes of barnes vortx 165 ttsx and a few boxes of 200 grain eldx


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Personally I would sell that ttsx and buy more ELDX. Unless required by law I would not hunt with a solid copper bullet.

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[grfox92]

Or you could sell all of that 300wsm ammo which would be very easy in this market and use that money to buy a case of 7 PRC ammo, which if you didn't reload would be move due to the trend in factory ammunition availability.

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[swavescatter]

I would strike Springfield from your list - lots of reports of crappy QC and then crappy CS after the fact.

Personally, I prefer the Sako actions over Rem 700 due to the safety position locking the bolt (and some say a "safer" safety).

I wouldn't pay extra for an Ember if you're going to get rid of the stock. Just thread the stainless T3X at your preferred length and run a suppressor/brake.

I would also take a look at the Sako S20's on sale at EuroOptic - great deal on those and I love mine.

 

[Dbevans]

Personally I would sell that ttsx and buy more ELDX. Unless required by law I would not hunt with a solid copper bullet.

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I’m in Alaska and there are no other options. This last year my gf shot a 54 inch bull at 350 yards one shot with a 140 ttsx out of a 7 mag

I have a video of it if I knew how to post vids I would

Another thing I can do is just get a 300 wm and I already have ammo for that as well and its more available


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[Dbevans]

I would strike Springfield from your list - lots of reports of crappy QC and then crappy CS after the fact.

Personally, I prefer the Sako actions over Rem 700 due to the safety position locking the bolt (and some say a "safer" safety).

I wouldn't pay extra for an Ember if you're going to get rid of the stock. Just thread the stainless T3X at your preferred length and run a suppressor/brake.

I would also take a look at the Sako S20's on sale at EuroOptic - great deal on those and I love mine.

I will take a look. I also want the thicker barrel


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[grfox92]

Mono's definetly kill animals, especially at closer ranges, like 400 yards and under. Anything past that and you are asking for trouble. Frangible bullets like ELD X / M or Berger VLDs create significantly more damage than monos by a huge margin.

Dead is dead yes, but I would want to maximize my rifles ability to destroy tissue.

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[Dbevans]

Mono's definetly kill animals, especially at closer ranges, like 400 yards and under. Anything past that and you are asking for trouble. Frangible bullets like ELD X / M or Berger VLDs create significantly more damage than monos by a huge margin.

Dead is dead yes, but I would want to maximize my rifles ability to destroy tissue.

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So should I opt for a 300 wm in the tikka then? I have 180 grain accubonds and 200 grain terminal ascents. I love the accubonds bc they stopped this moose in its tracks. I have also been able to find 200 grain eldx if I look around. I also have a case of 300 prc eldx with no prc

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[35WhelenAI]

Interesting, "monos are asking for trouble" past 400 yards. Is it common (or necessary?) to shoot moose, or any big game in Alaska (or in 90%+ of hunting ANYWHERE) beyond 400 yards? Seriously.

It's asking for trouble with any bullet when expansion velocity is not achieved for the distance of the shooting, that's it, nothing more. Long range shooters create their own problem, then repeat a mantra that keeps folks from using monos when they are entirely proper for the job in well over 90% of hunting situations.

Barnes Vor-TX in the 165 TTSX 300 WSM is carrying 2200 fps to 500 yds, and over 2000 fps to the 600 yard line.... 2200 fps is absolutely enough. It is reasonable to question a 400 yard limitation (unless from experience with this loading and a lost animal) based on the fact that 500 yards is well over 1/4 of a mile and still moving 2200 fps.

 

[grfox92]

So should I opt for a 300 wm in the tikka then? I have 180 grain accubonds and 200 grain terminal ascents. I love the accubonds bc they stopped this moose in its tracks. I have also been able to find 200 grain eldx if I look around. I also have a case of 300 prc eldx with no prc

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Terminal Ascent and Accubonds are jacketed bullets designed to stay together and retain their weight. ELDs and Berger VLDs or Low Drag bullets are designed to expand and fragment causing devastating amounts of tissue damage resulting in quick death from anything hit by them.

Alot of guys like bonded bullets for hunting, and like monos, they kill things, but VLD bullets are going to be optimum for killing. They also create more damage which may attribute to meat loss, buy I'm much more worried about finding my animal dead quickly than I am about losing some hamburger meat.

There is a thread on here called "Why Match bullets for hunting?" If you want to learn more about bullets that is a good thread. Also the Shoot2Hunt podcast episode 35 will give you a full education on different types of bullets and why some are thought to be superior to others.

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[Buglebrush]

Seekins Element if you at all can swing it. Head and shoulders better by far.

 

[grfox92]

Interesting, "monos are asking for trouble" past 400 yards. Is it common (or necessary?) to shoot moose, or any big game in Alaska (or in 90%+ of hunting ANYWHERE) beyond 400 yards? Seriously.

It's asking for trouble with any bullet when expansion velocity is not achieved for the distance of the shooting, that's it, nothing more. Long range shooters create their own problem, then repeat a mantra that keeps folks from using monos when they are entirely proper for the job in well over 90% of hunting situations.

Barnes Vor-TSX in the 165 TTSX 300 WSM is carrying 2200 fps to 500 yds, and over 2000 fps to the 600 yard line.... 2200 fps is absolutely enough. It is reasonable to question a 400 yard limitation (unless from experience with this loading and a lost animal) based on the fact that 500 yards is well over 1/4 of a mile and still moving 2200 fps.

You mono guys sure don't like when people criticize your bullets. VLD bullets of any variety create a significantly larger wound channel than any mono bullet of equivalent weight in the same caliber at any range. This is factual, strictly based on how the bullets are designed to function.

I'm not sure what your goal is when you shoot an animal, but my goal is to kill that animal as fast as possible. The bullet that creates the larger wound is going to accomplish that task better. Hence, why I personally would never choose a mono when there are frangible bullets available.


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[NevadaMike]

If you can swing it Seekins is a far better rig out of the box. I have had several Tikkas and they are fine rifles. If you are just going to buy it and shoot without changing or upgrading the Tikka is great. Having said that I now own two Seekins Elements and one PH2. If length is not and issue and you do not intend to run a supressor I prefer the PH2. Seekins are individually bedded at the factory, stock is great for me and they have a Timney trigger. Customer service is unmatched. One of my Elements lives in SE Alaska and is soaking wet virtually every day it goes out.

 

[35WhelenAI]

You mono guys sure don't like when people criticize your bullets. VLD bullets of any variety create a significantly larger wound channel than any mono bullet of equivalent weight in the same caliber at any range. This is factual, strictly based on how the bullets are designed to function.

I'm not sure what your goal is when you shoot an animal, but my goal is to kill that animal as fast as possible. The bullet that creates the larger wound is going to accomplish that task better. Hence, why I personally would never choose a mono when there are frangible bullets available.


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You indicated "... past 400 yards", and it's easy to run numbers that show 25% to 50% to the good with expansion velocity above and beyond that with the factory load and cartridge class being discussed.

I'll ask again. Is it common (or necessary?) to shoot moose, or any big game in Alaska (or in 90%+ of hunting ANYWHERE) beyond 400 yards?

Questioning the humane killing goal of anyone who shoots a different bullet than what you choose to shoot is BS.

Personal experience plays a big part in this, and I can understand if we are coming from different references. Mine is both lead core bullets and monos for 30 years. Monos work great for my hunting, as do other bullets. I hope the bullets you choose keep working for you for quick and clean kills.

 

[Leaf Litter]

What do you dislike about the X-bolt? It might help narrow down your personal preferences to make the new rifle fit you better.

 

[grfox92]

You indicated "... past 400 yards", and it's easy to run numbers that show 25% to 50% to the good with expansion velocity above and beyond that with the factory load and cartridge class being discussed.

I'll ask again. Is it common (or necessary?) to shoot moose, or any big game in Alaska (or in 90%+ of hunting ANYWHERE) beyond 400 yards?

Questioning the humane killing goal of anyone who shoots a different bullet than what you choose to shoot is BS.

Personal experience plays a big part in this, and I can understand if we are coming from different references. Mine is both lead core bullets and monos for 30 years. Monos work great for my hunting, as do other bullets. I hope the bullets you choose keep working for you for quick and clean kills.

Hey man, use what you like. I'm not a long range hunter. Furthest shot I have is 349 yards on a mule deer. Monos may very well work at the longer ranges you are listing, 600 yards for example for a 300wsm. The thing is, at 600 yards an ELDM vs a Mono, regardless of the monos terminal velocity, the ELDM or X is leaving a bigger hole with much more tissue damage than the mono, and there is thousands of pages of pictures of wound channels on this forum to draw that conclusion.

That's why my opinion is to use VLD type bullets over monos. I never mentioned hunting with monos as being inhumane, just that I don't believe it's the most effective tool for the job. You also said "is it really necessary to shoot game over 400 yards?" It doesn't matter because at ranges under 400 yards the VDL bullets are still outperforming the monos in terms of wound channel and that data is in the pages of threads on this forum for anyone to see.

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[35WhelenAI]

You said, "I'm not sure what your goal is when you shoot an animal, but my goal is to kill that animal as fast as possible". That falls in line with the definition of a humane kill, and implies what it says.

I appreciate your reference to the pages on this forum, what has been your experience in the field with respect to monos not performing a kill as well as a frangible bullet? My experience and experience of others, including the OP, would say there's much to do about not much, as a dead animal is a dead animal.

Good luck to all choosing a rifle and bullet that works well for them, no heartburn here.

 

[grfox92]

You said, "I'm not sure what your goal is when you shoot an animal, but my goal is to kill that animal as fast as possible". That falls in line with the definition of a humane kill, and implies what it says.

I appreciate your reference to the pages on this forum, what has been your experience in the field with respect to monos not performing a kill as well as a frangible bullet? My experience and experience of others, including the OP, would say there's much to do about not much, as a dead animal is a dead animal.

Good luck to all choosing a rifle and bullet that works well for them, no heartburn here.

I'm not going to argue with you man, you like monos I like VLDs. I recommended what I like And gave evidence to support why I recommended it. Have a great day.

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