Tikka Nitriding

[Nine Banger]

Wish I would have seen this-

Nitride on the screws for the UM rings made them brittle and some broke at proper torque. That is why they stopped nitriding.

I went 60 inch-lbs on the dovetail clamp screws and 35 inch-lbs on the first set and it worked out.

I'll be putting another set back together pretty soon and the third set will probably lay idle for a minute.

I'll report back if anything pops.

 

[amassi]

DLC an option?

Isn’t DLC slick? Or do you just mean the head for aesthetic purposes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[khuber84]

Isn’t DLC slick? Or do you just mean the head for aesthetic purposes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dlc is slick, but isn't everyone paint penning now anyways? Idk if it'd have affect on clamping consistency and holding strength. I guess just use a black paint pen on the reads and screw heads. Hard to tell if anything has moved tho.

 

[Formidilosus]

DLC an option?

DLC is slick and has a tendency to let screws come loose no matter how much loctite is applied.

 

[RockAndSage]

DLC is slick and has a tendency to let screws come loose no matter how much loctite is applied.

That would make sense, given that fine watches use jewels/gems as bearings.

 

[Cmack0102]

The Raven action and bolt will both be nitrided.

We will eventually share the steels used, but unfortunately not until it’s on the market.

Is it going to be stainless?

 

[Procision Arms]

Is it going to be stainless?

The bolt will be, the action itself is a nitrided chromoly.

 

[longrangelead]

I went down the nitride rabbit hole 5 or 6 years ago.

As far as barrels, I chose not to based on cost/benefit to expected outcome.

Gordy Gritters and his F class circle tried before and after tests where several "ringer" barrels shot worse after nitride.

Not to muddy the waters here because as hunters, I doubt 99.9% can legitimately shoot the difference. The F class guys have to shoot ¼ MOA @ 1000 to be competitive.

The idea was to "preserve" the accuracy of a good barrel for longer. From what ive gathered, nitriding a barrel may extend its life some but ,its not going to triple its life with hotter cartridges. Throat erosion is not entirely from abrasion. The high heat AND abrasion will overcome the nitride and eventually fire cracking deeper than the nitride layer. But, that's not what nitride is primarily for anyway.

For me, it would just be money spent for no real gain.

I'm very interested to see how @Nine Banger fairs with his barrels.

As far as actions and making them weaker. I believe it's a lot of speculation over nothing.
To substantially change the characteristics of the steel rifles are made of, they have to be heated to 1600 degrees-ISH or higher. Then how the steel is cooled determines whether it is harder or softer after, quenched or annealed.

Lots of parts are silver soldered like Rem 700 bolt handles. Silver solder has a melting point of about 1400 iirc and Nitride does not affect silver solder. (previously stated around 1050 degrees)

Also consider barrel recoil lugs on safari type rifles. They are silver soldered in place which heats the barrel to a bright red/orange (1400-1500) to achieve the solder joint. They are perfectly safe and accurate after doing so.

my 2 cents anyway

 

[RockAndSage]

I went down the nitride rabbit hole 5 or 6 years ago.

As far as barrels, I chose not to based on cost/benefit to expected outcome.

Gordy Gritters and his F class circle tried before and after tests where several "ringer" barrels shot worse after nitride.

Not to muddy the waters here because as hunters, I doubt 99.9% can legitimately shoot the difference. The F class guys have to shoot ¼ MOA @ 1000 to be competitive.

The idea was to "preserve" the accuracy of a good barrel for longer. From what ive gathered, nitriding a barrel may extend its life some but ,its not going to triple its life with hotter cartridges. Throat erosion is not entirely from abrasion. The high heat AND abrasion will overcome the nitride and eventually fire cracking deeper than the nitride layer. But, that's not what nitride is primarily for anyway.

For me, it would just be money spent for no real gain.

I'm very interested to see how @Nine Banger fairs with his barrels.

As far as actions and making them weaker. I believe it's a lot of speculation over nothing.
To substantially change the characteristics of the steel rifles are made of, they have to be heated to 1600 degrees-ISH or higher. Then how the steel is cooled determines whether it is harder or softer after, quenched or annealed.

Lots of parts are silver soldered like Rem 700 bolt handles. Silver solder has a melting point of about 1400 iirc and Nitride does not affect silver solder. (previously stated around 1050 degrees)

Also consider barrel recoil lugs on safari type rifles. They are silver soldered in place which heats the barrel to a bright red/orange (1400-1500) to achieve the solder joint. They are perfectly safe and accurate after doing so.

my 2 cents anyway

I'm definitely one of those guys who couldn't shoot the difference between nitrided and non, but I am actually very interested in durability enhancements. And, to some degree, willing to pay extra for increased durability, even if it doesn't save money over the cost of just using normal barrels over time and 10k's of ammo. IIRC, .223 can generally get about 5000 rounds on a barrel before accuracy starts opening up? If were nitrided, based on what you remember, how many rounds would the same barrel go before starting to open up its groups?

 

[Formidilosus]

IIRC, .223 can generally get about 5000 rounds on a barrel before accuracy starts opening up? If were nitrided, based on what you remember, how many rounds would the same barrel go before starting to open up its groups?

Just as a point of reference- Tikka barrels do not last 5,000 rounds in 223. We have two rifles with more than 25,000 223 rounds on the original barrels- both shoot better now than when new (sub MOA for 10 round groups consistently), and S2H has 8 more rifles who’s barrels have over 8,000 to more than 10,000 rounds on them- all shoot the same size 10-30 round groups now as when new, or better.

 

[RockAndSage]

Just as a point of reference- Tikka barrels do not last 5,000 rounds in 223. We have two rifles with more than 25,000 223 rounds on the original barrels- both shoot better now than when new (sub MOA for 10 round groups consistently), and S2H has 8 more rifles who’s barrels have over 8,000 to more than 10,000 rounds on them- all shoot the same size 10-30 round groups now as when new, or better.

That is really awesome to hear. Just to double-check, is it more of a Tikka barrel thing, or a .223 thing? Any difference between stainless and carbon-steel barrels in all this?

 

[omicron1792]

Just as a point of reference- Tikka barrels do not last 5,000 rounds in 223. We have two rifles with more than 25,000 223 rounds on the original barrels- both shoot better now than when new (sub MOA for 10 round groups consistently), and S2H has 8 more rifles who’s barrels have over 8,000 to more than 10,000 rounds on them- all shoot the same size 10-30 round groups now as when new, or better.

Gunsmiths tell me Blaser barrels are hard to cut and thread because of how hard they are with nitriding. Any experience with that?

 

[Formidilosus]

Gunsmiths tell me Blaser barrels are hard to cut and thread because of how hard they are with nitriding. Any experience with that?

Lots. I’ve never seen a Blaser barrel shot out. That’s includes a 22-250 with 4,000 plus rounds on it.

 

[longrangelead]

That is really awesome to hear. Just to double-check, is it more of a Tikka barrel thing, or a .223 thing? Any difference between stainless and carbon-steel barrels in all this?

What Form said.

From what I remember, nitride added 20 or 30,000 rounds to the life of a 5.56 before it dropped below the standard for the test.
So, 25k(and counting) + 30k and maybe more is A LOT OF SHOOTING.

That being said, how much more life does a guy need in 223/556, 308 and other Long life rounds?

The cost of nitriding a barrel would buy 3 take off barrels. Obviously batch pricing would make it more appealing.

I was looking at extending the life of big cartridges like 300 RUM at the time. Personally, I don't see a benefit to nitriding a barrel outside corrosion resistance.

That's not to say it won't fill your need.

Maybe we need to take a well shot barrel and nitride it and find out...

 

[Kauaihunter]

Lots. I’ve never seen a Blaser barrel shot out. That’s includes a 22-250 with 4,000 plus rounds on it.

Would you say that or do you know if the Sauer barrels have the same longevity?

Being that the Sauer/Blaser connection is something like the Sako/Tikka one. Or is that a totally different scenario?

 

[Coopsdaddy]

What Form said.

From what I remember, nitride added 20 or 30,000 rounds to the life of a 5.56 before it dropped below the standard for the test.
So, 25k(and counting) + 30k and maybe more is A LOT OF SHOOTING.

That being said, how much more life does a guy need in 223/556, 308 and other Long life rounds?

The cost of nitriding a barrel would buy 3 take off barrels. Obviously batch pricing would make it more appealing.

I was looking at extending the life of big cartridges like 300 RUM at the time. Personally, I don't see a benefit to nitriding a barrel outside corrosion resistance.

That's not to say it won't fill your need.

Maybe we need to take a well shot barrel and nitride it and find out...

Cost me 150 to do a tikka barrel.