Tikka Nitriding

[wind gypsy]

I've read rifle manufacturers and manufacturing engineer statements about how knowing the specific alloys and specifics of an action is important in getting nitride treatment correct to avoid compromising function/reliability/safety and test after nitride to confirm. My question is if anyone knows about how these aspects have been addressed by any entity that is nitride treating tikka actions?

 

[StupidLightweight]

Great question. Wish I could answer it.

 

[Marbles]

I don't think they have. I have argued for nitriding in the past. Though when push came to shove I decided against nitriding my Tikka actions in stainless.

I would be more inclined to nitrided CroMoly. Nitriding barrels makes a lot of since to me. That leaves the action to protect your face. I thought about nitriding the bolt, but having bolt lugs shear sounds bad.

I would have no issues nitriding a 223 (more metal, less pressure on the lugs due to smaller bolt face area). 308 and Creedmoor based cartridges don't particularly worry me, but I think I will pass. Magnum bolt face cartridges do worry me.

If I had the money, I would get 12 tikkas, 6 stainless in all three bolt faces, 6 CroMoly in all 3 bolt faces. Then nitrided half of them and carry out destructive testing just for fun. I don't have the money, so instead you just get my guess.

I would be interested in seeing how they handle a double charge of a fast powder that is cartridge appropriate and in how they handle a bullet stuck in the barrel with a warm load someone might actually use behind it.

If they survived those, in that order, then I would move on to dumb stuff until they failed catastrophically (such as a case full of handgun powder and a plugged barrel).

 

[DangerRanger]

I’ve wondered your question and haven’t seen an answer.

But, I do sometimes wonder if people in this hobby make mountains out of molehills for stuff like this.

personally, I’m considering having mine DLC coated instead

 

[Marbles]

I’ve wondered your question and haven’t seen an answer.

But, I do sometimes wonder if people in this hobby make mountains out of molehills for stuff like this.

personally, I’m considering having mine DLC coated instead

We do. But, without testing it is hard to know and catastrophic failure can be costly in much more than money.

 

[Shortschaf]

you could email mfg for the alloy and heat treat regimine. Then ask nitrider what the time & temp is. Then review the heat treat chart for said alloy to understand if it will alter the metallurgy.

if it doesnt compromise the factory heat treat thats great. If it doesn't penetrate a significant amount of the parent material (like only a couple thousandths) also great. You'd probably be fine.

Even knowing all that, I wouldnt stress a ton about it. If a reputable shop offers it and I wanted it, I'd probably do it with reckless abandon

 

[atmat]

I don’t get the purpose of nitriding good stainless actions. What are people wanting to get out of it?

 

[Quicksilver]

I don’t get the purpose of nitriding good stainless actions. What are people wanting to get out of it?

I’ve seen too many stainless actions rust, and it’s a thinner coating than cerakote and doesn’t impede on action tolerances as much. Just 2 points to bring to the argument.

And it’s the new hotness, 3 points to argue

 

[atmat]

I’ve seen too many stainless actions rust, and it’s a thinner coating than cerakote and doesn’t impede on action tolerances as much. Just 2 points to bring to the argument.

I don’t live in a coastal climate, so maybe my opinion would change. But my guns see a lot of moisture and I’ve never had a good quality stainless action rust.

And it’s the new hotness, 3 points to argue

I mean I can’t argue that

 

[Quicksilver]

I don’t live in a coastal climate, so maybe my opinion would change. But my guns see a lot of moisture and I’ve never had a good quality stainless action rust.


I mean I can’t argue that

I think a lot of it is gun care, but it’s the small rust/scattered dots I’m talking about. Basically cosmetic but if I spend extra for stainless I want it to be stainless! also I understand different grades of stainless have different properties.

 

[Marbles]

I don’t live in a coastal climate, so maybe my opinion would change. But my guns see a lot of moisture and I’ve never had a good quality stainless action rust.


I mean I can’t argue that

My stainless tikka barrels have rust spots on them. I cerakoted the actions.

Nitriding will make an action smoother as the surface gets hardened. The smoothest action I have ever owned was a nitrided Sako 85. The non-nitride Sako's I have handled are not as smooth. That is also the only action I have handled that would not bind even when I tried (think pushing the bolt to the side with more force than pushing forward). I kind of whish I had held on to it now.

 

[atmat]

My stainless tikka barrels have rust spots on them. I cerakoted the actions.

Nitriding will make an action smoother as the surface gets hardened. The smoothest action I have ever owned was a nitrided Sako 85. The non-nitride Sako's I have handled are not as smooth. That is also the only action I have handled that would not bind even when I tried (think pushing the bolt to the side with more force than pushing forward). I kind of whish I had held on to it now.

Regarding rust: Are you coastal?

 

[StupidLightweight]

I don’t know about the metallurgical concerns, but UM nitrided and ceracoated a tikka of mine, and it’s awesome.

 

[bpitcher]

I don’t know about the metallurgical concerns, but UM nitrided and ceracoated a tikka of mine, and it’s awesome. View attachment 760792

Looks great. I plan on doing the same when I build mine out next year.

 

[yeti12]

So there is a few different types of nitride processes. Some require very high temps, like near 2000 degrees f and create a hard layer .010"-.060" deep. I'd be a little worried about that on a action not designed for nitride unless tikka came out and said exactly what makeup their actions are.

There is also lower temp options in the 600-800 degree range for a very short time that produce a layer that's .0005"-.007" or so deep. I wouldn't be worried one bit about that cause you aren't getting it hot enough to really affect the steel/stainless and the layer isn't thick enough to compromise the bolt lugs. Send off a tikka action and have it nitrided and have them shoot for .002-.004" thick and call it a day. I've dealt with nitride in that thickness range alot, you can grind though it and the base material is not affected at all.

 

[wind gypsy]

I don’t get the purpose of nitriding good stainless actions. What are people wanting to get out of it?

For polished stainless ones (think defiance) it’s a less shiny finish. Better corrosion resistance. Slicker operation. If it’s a bead blasted or matte finish already that isn’t corrosion prone and there isn’t a notable slickness improvement, I would agree that there isn’t much purpose.

I’ve heard mixed reviews on some of the nitrided tikkas. The primary benefit that would entice me is if it made bolt lift lighter but I wouldn’t expect a significant change there.

 

[Marbles]

Regarding rust: Are you coastal?

Yes. In a different climate, I would still own blued CroMoly guns.

It also is not large areas of rust, nor defuse pitting, more like some wet debris stuck on the barrel and left a surface stain just deep enough the bead blasted finished would be polished off to remove it.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I don’t have your answer, but this is the third 6UM barrel on this nitrided action. She still “hammers”.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Igloo]

Basically only certain low temperature nitriding methods actually even make stainless steel more corrosion resistant, right?

Nitrided Titanium Alloys vs Nitrided Stainless Steels

Dr. Edward Rolinski discusses why nitrided titanium is a great alternative for stainless steels in the article, "Nitrided Titanium Alloys vs Stainless Steels."

www.ahtcorp.com

 

[Marbles]

Basically only certain low temperature nitriding methods actually even make stainless steel more corrosion resistant, right?

Nitrided Titanium Alloys vs Nitrided Stainless Steels

Dr. Edward Rolinski discusses why nitrided titanium is a great alternative for stainless steels in the article, "Nitrided Titanium Alloys vs Stainless Steels."

www.ahtcorp.com

Thanks for sharing that.