Tikka caliber for kids

[miller3483]

Man I would definitely recommend a 6mm or .22 creed or something like that. My 13 year old shot a bunch of .223 when he was 9/10 yrs old before he did much with the compact 7mm-08 we got him, but in retrospect I think it was too much. He didn't (still doesn't) mind it, he was (and still is) always super excited to shoot it and would shoot as much as I'd let him.

"Loves it" and "not scared of it", unfortunately, does not necessarily mean "didn't develop any bad habits because of it". He still shoots the .223 better, and a couple years ago we had a serious summer when he was turning 12 of correcting that. He probably dry fired 30 minutes a day 3x per week all summer, and range trips were a lot of dry fire between each round, me loading his rifle with dummies, more rimfire than centerfire, and more .223 than 7mm-08.

We kept doing a lot of that, though not with the intensity of that summer, to try to maintain good habits, but I didn't realize how much of a hole I'd dug for him to get out of.

My daughter (10) has only ever shot rimfire and .223, and doesn't have nearly bad habits my son did at that age. I have 4 more kids younger than her, so I decided to do a "first deer gun" for all of them to use as they get old enough. Early last summer I ordered a Howa mini in 6mm ARC (basically a 6mm grendel, a touch slower than a 6BR) that should be finally showing up this month. I know a .223 is probably the logical choice but I can't seem to bring myself to just do the sensible straightforward thing.

Do you handload? How much of a project are you looking for? A 6BR or .22 creedmoor would be a sweet rebarrel if you want to keep standard bolt face, though you won't get your desired barrel life out of the creed. 3k+ out of the BR. 6CM if suppressed should do great as well, but is closer to 6.5 recoil than it is to .223 and less barrel life.

A 108gr 6mm ELDM at BR speeds or 88gr 22cal ELDM is great on game and is very mild and fun to shoot (especially suppressed).

Also if you can snap up some 77 tmk's when the become available, your existing .223 is a great deer killer already. Just don't buy the ones I'm trying to buy (along with every other WKR out there).

This is exactly the insight I was looking for, and exactly the situation I’m hoping to avoid. My daughter hasn’t done a ton of shooting with the 7mm-08 yet, but I’m afraid I may already have introduced some bad habits.

I do reload, so the BR could definitely be an option. I was thinking the 6 Creedmoor would offer an advantage in the way of having some factory options so that I don’t necessarily have to reload. I’ll definitely check out the BR though.

I was able to score about 50 rds of factory loaded 77tmks so she will be hunting with that this year.

 

[miller3483]

Man I would definitely recommend a 6mm or .22 creed or something like that. My 13 year old shot a bunch of .223 when he was 9/10 yrs old before he did much with the compact 7mm-08 we got him, but in retrospect I think it was too much. He didn't (still doesn't) mind it, he was (and still is) always super excited to shoot it and would shoot as much as I'd let him.

"Loves it" and "not scared of it", unfortunately, does not necessarily mean "didn't develop any bad habits because of it". He still shoots the .223 better, and a couple years ago we had a serious summer when he was turning 12 of correcting that. He probably dry fired 30 minutes a day 3x per week all summer, and range trips were a lot of dry fire between each round, me loading his rifle with dummies, more rimfire than centerfire, and more .223 than 7mm-08.

We kept doing a lot of that, though not with the intensity of that summer, to try to maintain good habits, but I didn't realize how much of a hole I'd dug for him to get out of.

My daughter (10) has only ever shot rimfire and .223, and doesn't have nearly bad habits my son did at that age. I have 4 more kids younger than her, so I decided to do a "first deer gun" for all of them to use as they get old enough. Early last summer I ordered a Howa mini in 6mm ARC (basically a 6mm grendel, a touch slower than a 6BR) that should be finally showing up this month. I know a .223 is probably the logical choice but I can't seem to bring myself to just do the sensible straightforward thing.

Do you handload? How much of a project are you looking for? A 6BR or .22 creedmoor would be a sweet rebarrel if you want to keep standard bolt face, though you won't get your desired barrel life out of the creed. 3k+ out of the BR. 6CM if suppressed should do great as well, but is closer to 6.5 recoil than it is to .223 and less barrel life.

A 108gr 6mm ELDM at BR speeds or 88gr 22cal ELDM is great on game and is very mild and fun to shoot (especially suppressed).

Also if you can snap up some 77 tmk's when the become available, your existing .223 is a great deer killer already. Just don't buy the ones I'm trying to buy (along with every other WKR out there).

That’s exactly the insight I was looking for. I m definitely trying to avoid some of those issues you ran into with your son. I unfortunately my have started down that road a bit with my oldest daughter.

I do reload, so I’ll give the BR a look. I was leaning towards the 6 Creed because I wouldn’t necessarily have to reload for it if f I don’t want.

I managed to score about 50 rds of factory 77 tmk’s, which is what she will be using this year.

 

[oldskool67]

6.5 CM is perfect for children

 

[packgoatguy]

Definitely not interested in having my kids shoot a breaker rifle, a suppressor is on the way though. Thanks for the response.

My 2 cents:

I've got six kids, and train another half dozen how to hunt shoot and hunt.

I had 7 kids (ages 10-16) with me this past season, all made 1 shot kills on 11 elk and deer. 3 shots were with braked 7mm-08 and 308win rifles that I provided, and the rest of the 8 shots were done with my suppressed 300 WIN MAG. Shots ranged from 35 yards to 509 yards, with most in the 200-400 yard range.

1. Training at home is done with 223 and 308win rifles (cheap ammo).
2. Dry fire drills to practice trigger control and breathing are essential (they need to be able to hold the crosshairs on a target, pull the trigger on a dummy round, and after the firing pin clicks... the crosshairs should be still on the same exact point of aim... this is MUCH easier said than done, and usually takes most young shooters many dozens of dry fires to master)
3. If you haven't shot with a brake, don't over-think it... just use good ear-pro. All of my kids prefer shooting my braked rifles over my unbraked rifles.
4. Limit kids to taking ONLY fully supported shots. This takes a LOT of discipline, and you WILL miss shot opportunities that more experienced hunters could have made... but the kids won't miss out to reasonable yardages, and it teaches them that hunting is about more than just flinging lead at the first thing that moves.
5. My kids would rather shoot my suppressed 300wm than my unsuppressed 6.5 creedmoor, or even 223. It's not necessarily the recoil that bothers them, it's the concussive forces that occur when a rifle round is fired that makes them get flinchy (within reason of course). This is mitigated with a suppressor.
6. Use and practice with "tools" that make the rifle easier to shoot accurately, like bipods, cheek risers, scope flip up covers, easy to read dope cards, electronic ear muffs, range finders, ballistic phone app, etc.
7. Where possible, record the shots with a spotting scope/phone scope combo, so you can tell whether their shot was good. Adjust as necessary. (The kids also like to see their shot replayed after the fact).

The 7mm-08 compact rifle is a great option, I have the same exact rifle. However, instead of rebarreling to a different caliber, I would suggest spending the money on having the barrel threaded for your future suppressor or a break. Then put additional money you will have saved into a better (more ergonomic) stock like a KRG Bravo. Then add a front arca rail, add a good bipod, swfa 6x or 10x scope, and call it good.

If someone is using one of my unsuppressed braked rifles, I have some quality electronic ear muffs that I insist they use. While in the field, they have them at the ready at all times, and I will NOT let them take a shot without them, and the spotter with earpro in as well. However, this is not unique to braked rifles, I would require the same with unbraked rifles.

 

[Randfal]

I'd recommend the 223 for a while to make sure they don't learn bad flinching habits. And then go with a decent muzzle brake on the others. I have four Tikkas and love them. But they are a fairly light factory rifle and they do kick some.

 

[Randfal]

I always get grumpy over the "it's a good women's gun or kids gun" LOL. I bought a Ruger M77II in their compact 16" configuration a few years back. They advertised it as a better option for smaller people etc. lol. I'm 6'2" and 260lbs; and that POS kicked like a mull. There was not enough weight to help tame that gun. If I would have let a 13yr shoot it, they'd never shoot a gun again! So, take that "it's a good youth gun crap" with a grain of salt. Better start with light loads and light bullets if you do. Today's High BC Heavy bullet tread is not making the guns kick any softer

 

[ARK_Ginger]

I’ve read a ton of that thread, and I’m convinced. That’s a huge part of the reason I’m wondering if I should rebarrel the 7mm-08 to something like a 6 Creedmoor.

6 CM isn't down to the 223 levels of recoil, but I say rebarrel anyways and let the kids use the 223 just because 6CM is an awesome caliber. I'm kicking myself for rebarreling my 243 to 6.5 instead of 6CM, but I really only hunt with the 223 because it just plain works.

 

[Choupique]

When my kids are old enough, they are getting a rokslide special. Tikka T3 in .223 with a SWFA 6x

 

[miller3483]

My 2 cents:

I've got six kids, and train another half dozen how to hunt shoot and hunt.

I had 7 kids (ages 10-16) with me this past season, all made 1 shot kills on 11 elk and deer. 3 shots were with braked 7mm-08 and 308win rifles that I provided, and the rest of the 8 shots were done with my suppressed 300 WIN MAG. Shots ranged from 35 yards to 509 yards, with most in the 200-400 yard range.

1. Training at home is done with 223 and 308win rifles (cheap ammo).
2. Dry fire drills to practice trigger control and breathing are essential (they need to be able to hold the crosshairs on a target, pull the trigger on a dummy round, and after the firing pin clicks... the crosshairs should be still on the same exact point of aim... this is MUCH easier said than done, and usually takes most young shooters many dozens of dry fires to master)
3. If you haven't shot with a brake, don't over-think it... just use good ear-pro. All of my kids prefer shooting my braked rifles over my unbraked rifles.
4. Limit kids to taking ONLY fully supported shots. This takes a LOT of discipline, and you WILL miss shot opportunities that more experienced hunters could have made... but the kids won't miss out to reasonable yardages, and it teaches them that hunting is about more than just flinging lead at the first thing that moves.
5. My kids would rather shoot my suppressed 300wm than my unsuppressed 6.5 creedmoor, or even 223. It's not necessarily the recoil that bothers them, it's the concussive forces that occur when a rifle round is fired that makes them get flinchy (within reason of course). This is mitigated with a suppressor.
6. Use and practice with "tools" that make the rifle easier to shoot accurately, like bipods, cheek risers, scope flip up covers, easy to read dope cards, electronic ear muffs, range finders, ballistic phone app, etc.
7. Where possible, record the shots with a spotting scope/phone scope combo, so you can tell whether their shot was good. Adjust as necessary. (The kids also like to see their shot replayed after the fact).

The 7mm-08 compact rifle is a great option, I have the same exact rifle. However, instead of rebarreling to a different caliber, I would suggest spending the money on having the barrel threaded for your future suppressor or a break. Then put additional money you will have saved into a better (more ergonomic) stock like a KRG Bravo. Then add a front arca rail, add a good bipod, swfa 6x or 10x scope, and call it good.

If someone is using one of my unsuppressed braked rifles, I have some quality electronic ear muffs that I insist they use. While in the field, they have them at the ready at all times, and I will NOT let them take a shot without them, and the spotter with earpro in as well. However, this is not unique to braked rifles, I would require the same with unbraked rifles.

I really appreciate your thoughtful response. A KRG Bravo is next up on the purchase list after the suppressor. I like the idea of the fully supported shots, I’m thinking BOG tripod with death grip head or something similar. I’d be curious what you are using other than a bipod. I have a breaked 300WM that I’m not sure how much I really like to shoot due to the muzzle blast, the concussion starts to bother me after about 5 rounds so I’m really careful not to shoot it around the kids at all. I like your idea of saving money and having the 7mm-08 threaded for the suppressor.

 

[miller3483]

When my kids are old enough, they are getting a rokslide special. Tikka T3 in .223 with a SWFA 6x

That’s what she will be using this year for sure

 

[miller3483]

6 CM isn't down to the 223 levels of recoil, but I say rebarrel anyways and let the kids use the 223 just because 6CM is an awesome caliber. I'm kicking myself for rebarreling my 243 to 6.5 instead of 6CM, but I really only hunt with the 223 because it just plain works.

This is one of the reasons I’m thinking of rebarreling to the 6CM. I really like my 6.5 CM, and I think the 6CM would be pretty fun.

 

[packgoatguy]

I really appreciate your thoughtful response. A KRG Bravo is next up on the purchase list after the suppressor. I like the idea of the fully supported shots, I’m thinking BOG tripod with death grip head or something similar. I’d be curious what you are using other than a bipod. I have a breaked 300WM that I’m not sure how much I really like to shoot due to the muzzle blast, the concussion starts to bother me after about 5 rounds so I’m really careful not to shoot it around the kids at all. I like your idea of saving money and having the 7mm-08 threaded for the suppressor.

Several options depending on how stable you want it, and how much weight you want to carry. Something like the sunwayfoto sm-76 will work like a bog death grip... only better IMO when mounted on a 44mm or bigger ball head. You can mount it atop a gen 1 or 2 trigger sticks, that works well. Or there are a number of lightweight Tripods on Amazon, like the sirui am225. If you can tell in the pic, I've also built my own out of a beefy old Manfrotto tripod, screwed a 3/4 inch piece of plywood to the top of it, and that makes an extremely stable and portable shooting platform... almost like shooting off of a bench... but it's not especially lightweight. You can also get creative and add non-superfluous weight to the forend if you have an arca rail. In my case a 1 liter aluminum water bottle, which stores my backup water on the trail, and is my pot for boiling water for my mountain house meals... but I can mount that "3lb weight" to the forend of my stock in no time flat if i need a super stable shot... and you wouldn't believe how well that dampens recoil and muzzle rise.

 

[packgoatguy]

I really appreciate your thoughtful response. A KRG Bravo is next up on the purchase list after the suppressor. I like the idea of the fully supported shots, I’m thinking BOG tripod with death grip head or something similar. I’d be curious what you are using other than a bipod. I have a breaked 300WM that I’m not sure how much I really like to shoot due to the muzzle blast, the concussion starts to bother me after about 5 rounds so I’m really careful not to shoot it around the kids at all. I like your idea of saving money and having the 7mm-08 threaded for the suppressor.

If you are into ultralight... the the fotobetter mbp-19 is the lightest ball head I've found that will reliably hold a rifle or big spotter.

 

[miller3483]

If you are into ultralight... the the fotobetter mbp-19 is the lightest ball head I've found that will reliably hold a rifle or big spotter.

Thanks, I’ve got some research to do now.

 

[2-Stix]

I just built my son a Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor. It has a compact stock with a removable 1" spacer so he can grow into it. I had the barrel cut 2", threaded and timed with a Holland break.

 

[Jon C]

Thanks for the reply man. The only concern with doing that is that the 7mm-08 at full power loads still has a bit more recoil than my 6.5, and I don’t want my kids to be worried about the recoil. Adding a limbsaver would definitely be the cheapest route

Thanks for the reply man. The only concern with doing that is that the 7mm-08 at full power loads still has a bit more recoil than my 6.5, and I don’t want my kids to be worried about the recoil. Adding a limbsaver would definitely be the cheapest route though.

Started the kid off with a marlin lever 44 mag when he was ten. Almost no recoil. I had a 7mm-08 tikka that wasn’t a compact that I thought kicked quite a bit. Bought a compact Winchester xpr in 243 for nephews that doesn’t kick at all and a full size xpr in 6.5 creedmoor that seems to kick about as much as the 243. Way less than the tikka 7-08 for sure. My dads got a Remington 7mm-08 cdl that kicks less than the tikka also. But they all probably way a pound more or close. Not knocking tikka mine have all been super accurate. My favorite one is a 300 wsm but I’d way rather shoot the xpr in 6.5 creed at the range.

 

[EMAZ]

Configure your .223 and 7mm-08 the same way. Have regular range time with the .223 (cheaper to shoot, less recoil) to build proper technique. As hunting season approaches, have them shoot the 7mm-08 off a lead sled or bags at the range for a 3 shot group. When they’re out hunting, and get hopefully get an opportunity, carry shooting sticks to help steady the shot (quicker and better adjustability than an attached bipod for kids to get behind to have height over obstacles)…I highly doubt they notice the recoil in the 7mm-08 in the moment, and you’ll have an all-purpose setup for reasonable kid distance shots.

 

[Thinkingman]

I'm a little late to this thread but I would NEVER have my kid around a braked rifle.
Ever.

 

[KenLee]

I'm a little late to this thread but I would NEVER have my kid around a braked rifle.
Ever.

I wouldn't even have a kid I don't like shooting a braked rifle.

 

[william schmaltz]

I just built my son a Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor. It has a compact stock with a removable 1" spacer so he can grow into it. I had the barrel cut 2", threaded and timed with a Holland break.

Did you find a factory 6.5 Compact or order the stock? I'm only seeing the compact in 308, 7-08, and 223 locally. They have a compact tactical in 6.5, but I'm not interested in that gun. As a question for the crowd, what youth stocks are you putting on your tikka rifles?

My oldest is 4.5 and I have a sparrow 22 and AB 8 on order. Plan to let him shoot a quality suppressed 22 a whole bunch for the next 2 or so years and then switch him over intermittently to the suppressed 6.5 with low recoil loads. Would like to go with a 6.5 over the 223 or 7-08 to hopefully come along on a black bear and moose hunt in 2025 if his shooting is ready.