Tikka 223: Pierced Primers and Firing Pin Size

[bpitcher]

Got a batch of BoneFrog 77gr TMK in last week and decided to go test it out.

Had 4 primers pierced of 11 struck. Has anyone else had issues with this ammo? MV was well within the expected range at 2734 fps average. No pressure signs. This rifle is brand new (Muzzle Threaded) and has shot 75gr Gold Dot, 75gr Hornady Black, 73gr ELDM, 62gr soft points, and M193 with no issues thus far. FP protrusion measured at .0645.

I pulled the firing pin to inspect and found what appears to be some erosion. This leads to my next issue - It looks that Tikka has changed the size of the firing pin from a universal size (Part Number S5850155) to a small. I called Beretta to confirm this and they gave me the part number to the larger firing pin and appear to be unaware that there was a change made.

I sent them some pictures of the measurements, to which they replied: "According to management, the firing pins are clearly different by caliber and or generation.
The .223 uses small rifle primers and the 6.5 CM uses large rifle primers, so the nose of the firing pin will be different diameters. They are not interchangeable." and then closed my customer service case. Why then did you send me the part number for the larger firing pin and tell me that there have been no changes since 2023 to the schematics?

Does anyone have a newer model (MT) 223 to compare to? I'd be interested in seeing a picture of the firing pin.



6.5CM Firing Pin


223

 

[RancherJohn]

I have a .223 T3x that does the same with Bonefrog 77 gr TMKs as well. No issues in a little over a thousand rounds of the same lot through a gas gun, and no issues with 10 or so different ammo types in that .223. I haven't gotten around to swapping the firing pin to see if it makes a difference yet, but it's on the list.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Did you contact the ammo manufacture and get their take?

 

[Lawnboi]

You have a couple things going on.

Likely hot ammo loaded with possibly thin primers. Once you pierce one you end up with a rough firing pin from gas etching. Once that happens you’re much more likely to pierce primers.

As far as I know firing pins on tikkas are all the same still. I don’t have any I bought in the last year but I’m only seeing one firing pin available. I have a half dozen different bolts and a few spare firing pins, all parts on all of them are interchangeable. I believe you just had a failure to communicate or a rep that dosnt know enough about the technical aspects of inside the bolt.

You could try to buff down some of the rough feeling on the tip but I would just buy a new firing pin and call it a day.

I’d also stop shooting that ammo

 

[bpitcher]

Did you contact the ammo manufacture and get their take?

Yes.

The owner stated that they have only seen pierced primers once and it was a "race gun" or something of the sort. A quick google search turned up at least one other issue in an AR. He did mention that they use CCI400s, which I've read can have a thinner cup.

He declined to refund me right off the bat, without me even asking as I had bought them from one of his vendors. I asked if I could provide a receipt then - no to that as well. No replacement as he does not have them in stock. Won't replace them with an SMK load because all he has is Black Hills and it's more expensive.

In the end he set an RMA and shipped a replacement order of their 77 match burner load. It's a cheaper offering, I'm just happy to be done with it. I think I'll likely see the same issues as it uses the same primer.

I felt like it was a pretty half hearted customer service response. I'd likely not buy from them again.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Yes.

The owner stated that they have only seen pierced primers once and it was a "race gun" or something of the sort. A quick google search turned up at least one other issue in an AR. He did mention that they use CCI400s, which I've read can have a thinner cup.

He declined to refund me right off the bat, without me even asking as I had bought them from one of his vendors. I asked if I could provide a receipt then - no to that as well. No replacement as he does not have them in stock. Won't replace them with an SMK load because all he has is Black Hills and it's more expensive.

In the end he set an RMA and shipped a replacement order of their 77 match burner load. It's a cheaper offering, I'm just happy to be done with it. I think I'll likely see the same issues as it uses the same primer.

I felt like it was a pretty half hearted customer service response. I'd likely not buy from them again.

I think @Lawnboi has the best advice…stop using that ammo. I run CCI 400s in all my .223 rem handloads in my t3x. Zero issues.

 

[bpitcher]

You have a couple things going on.

Likely hot ammo loaded with possibly thin primers. Once you pierce one you end up with a rough firing pin from gas etching. Once that happens you’re much more likely to pierce primers.

As far as I know firing pins on tikkas are all the same still. I don’t have any I bought in the last year but I’m only seeing one firing pin available. I have a half dozen different bolts and a few spare firing pins, all parts on all of them are interchangeable. I believe you just had a failure to communicate or a rep that dosnt know enough about the technical aspects of inside the bolt.

You could try to buff down some of the rough feeling on the tip but I would just buy a new firing pin and call it a day.

I’d also stop shooting that ammo

There definitely appears been a change in the last year or two. Notice the different firing pin bodies and hole sizes.

I called Beretta again yesterday to clarify. "Thats strange. We're going to have to get back to you."

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

Now I need to pull mine apart and check it out. I always thought it was just me running TAC too hot.

 

[Lawnboi]

There definitely appears been a change in the last year or two. Notice the different firing pin bodies and hole sizes.

I called Beretta again yesterday to clarify. "Thats strange. We're going to have to get back to you."

View attachment 1028537
View attachment 1028538

Have you tried the other pin in it?

This would be good to know as spare doing pins are nice to have around for instances like this.

Iv got 2 223 bolts and a slew of standard action bolts and have never noticed a difference

 

[bpitcher]

Have you tried the other pin in it?

This would be good to know as spare doing pins are nice to have around for instances like this.

Iv got 2 223 bolts and a slew of standard action bolts and have never noticed a difference

Yessir.

In addition to the different diameters, the taper to the nose is different. The larger pin will not even seat fully in the 223 bolt.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

He did mention that they use CCI400s,

Mystery solved, those are inappropriate primers for 223, even moreso for 5.56, and cause problems all over the place.

 

[Lawnboi]

Yessir.

In addition to the different diameters, the taper to the nose is different. The larger pin will not even seat fully in the 223 bolt.

These are both confirmed factory tikka bolts? Not second hand or anything

 

[bpitcher]

These are both confirmed factory tikka bolts? Not second hand or anything

Yes. Both off factory rifles. BNIB

 

[43.6N]

Yeah I think it’s a cci400 problem + 60kpsi load problem.

But I do wonder how the new raven bolt would handle the same ammo?


The primer flowing rearward into the void between the pin and the bolt aperture is the culprit. CCI 400 are notorious for being very thin walled, and rupturing if there is sloppy pin fit. It’s one of those classic “pressure signs” that’s not actually due to over pressure rounds.

The old answer used to be gunsmith bushing fit the bolt face to the firing pin.
Or use cci 450’s.

Since you have two pins, does the standard pin fit in the 223 hole?

Maybe it’s not a new standard firing pin diameter, but a QC problem from the factory?

 

[Lawnboi]

I just checked the firing pin in my spare 223 bolt I got last year. .068 like all my other tikka pins.

 

[bpitcher]

I just checked the firing pin in my spare 223 bolt I got last year. .068 like all my other tikka pins.

What I'm wondering is if they made a behind the scenes change when they introduced the new models last year and never updated their schematics. Did you bolt come off one of them or could it have been sourced from older stock?

My 223 was bought from EuroOptic earlier this month.

 

[Lawnboi]

What I'm wondering is if they made a behind the scenes change when they introduced the new models last year and never updated their schematics. Did you bolt come off one of them or could it have been sourced from older stock?

My 223 was bought from EuroOptic earlier this month.

The bolt was bought new stock from Midwest gun works last winter.

I’m not sure why they would make a change. I have a lot of srp rounds through tikkas with no issues.

If this is a change it needs to be known so guys can get spare stuff on hand.


Either way, if bone frog is using Cci 400s that’s probably the main issue. I know many use them successfully but they are a thin cup primer.

 

[Wrench]

You can get that bolt bushed if needed. Greg tannel and I imagine chad dixon would do it.

 

[coast range]

I have a brand new one from euro I got last month. I don’t have time right now but can check later today

 

[Sponge]

Im having similar issues with 223 hand loads and cci 400s. 77 smk, 23.0 H4895 (a bit spicy maybe?) and virgin Starline. Pierces primers about 1 in 10 shots. Have a few more to shoot that are loaded then will switch primers.