Tighter Groups

[fatlander]

There’s only one person that I personally know that can properly shoot a trigger release without any additional work mixed in with a hinge or resistance activated. The vast majority of people punch the snot out of wrist rockets and thumb buttons.

Most folks would be a much better archers if they had just started with a hinge and then moved back to a thumb. But made sure to work with the hinge when they start punching the button again.


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[patzed]

Highly recommend watching some dudley videos from NockOn on youtube, he's got a really good series on archery and will likely provide you a bunch of tips you can try to use to fix grouping issues.

 

[nphunter]

Too long if draw length is one of the most common issues with inconsistent anchors. If your bow is adjustable and you know how to adjust it then set the draw so that the string is in front of your nose just barely touching it.

A poorly tuned bow and poorly built arrows normally can still shoot very well at 20 yards. Consistency is key! Fletchings correct any major flight issues, your issue is where the pin is sitting when the arrow leaves the string.

Find a mirror, nock an arrow i and draw your bow standing parallel to it. Keep your finger off of the trigger and without moving your head use your eyes to look over and see what you look like. Having someone video you or take a picture at full draw works if you have someone there.


Here are a couple pics.


Here is my wife, she uses a wrist strap, notice the string is barely touching her nose with very little face pressure.


Here is a picture right after the above shot. Notice the follow through, bow still pointed toward the target and arm still in shot position. She is also in an open stance with the front leg slightly back



I agree with shooting a hinge release, my boys have been shooting a truball sweet spot since they were 9. A wrist strap can be shot just as well and can be shot with back tension. My 14 year old can outshoot 90% of the adults i shot with. He has very good form and follow through but most of the time rush's a shot. You can see here, even on uneven ground he is standing up square to his bow and not leaning forward and back with his hips.


There are several easy tips to help consistency, probably the easiest is a kisser button, it will allow for the string to come back to the exact spot every single time. Two points of contact are way better than 1, if you have a kisser and you touch it to the corner of your relaxed mouth every time along with having the string touch the very tip of your nose then you will have a very consistent shot and should be stacking arrows at 20 yards.

Hand torque is another big issue, this is my youngest son's biggest problem, you can tell instantly when he starts torquing the bow because his groups open up instantly. You want a totally relaxed from hand on the bow with the majority of the grip pressing against the pad under your thumb.

For your anchor, with your hand, it needs to be consistent, I always use to make an L with my right thumb and index finger and place that L right behind my jawbone so that the jaw was centered in the L. This is consistent for me and a solid repeatable anchor.

You should be able to close your eyes, draw your bow all the way to anchor, touch your nose to the string slightly and then open your eyes. If your anchor, loop and peep are correct you should be looking through a perfectly centered peep when you open your eyes. If you can't do this then you should go to a pro shop and have them adjust all of those things until you can.

Once all of those things are correct then it's time for the shot.

When your shooting focus on the target where you want to hit, set your relaxed finger on the trigger and start pulling into the wall with your back muscles, pretend you're squeezing a ball between your shoulder muscles. Allow the motion of pulling backward to drag your relaxed finger over the trigger and activate it. The entire time don’t stop focusing on the spot you want to hit. Your brain naturally centers the pin over the center of that spot and when your shot brakes.

If you need a visual draw a circle on a piece of paper, start on one side of it and start going back and forth across that paper with a pen from side to side, up and down all around the paper, each time you do that the pin crosses the center and eventually you will have a dark dot in the center. Your arrow does the same thing on the target so the more you focus and execute slow surprise shots the more ofter your arrow will land in the center, it spends over twice as much time crossing the center of the target than any other spot.

Punching does just the opposite, when you punch your either coming down or up on the target and then hitting the trigger when the pin is centered. The problem is that by the time your eyes recognize the pin is centered, tell your brain, and then your brain tells your finger to pull the pin has already moved off target which causes misses. Some people shoot decent like this but the further the distance the more this is amplified and the bigger your misses. Also people that tend to always miss high or low are suffering from target panic. My son comes from under the bullseye and when he starts punching he starts hitting high, when I notice this I have him start coming down on the target and remind him to focus on the shot.

My biggest piece of advice is to not get caught up on silly stuff like speed. Having too long of a draw length is the #1 thing that I see that people who can't shoot consistently have in common, a lot of people shoot as long of a draw as possible to get that little extra speed.

Learning how to work on your own equipment and shooting year-round helps as well.

 

[tim tarras]

Highly recommend watching some dudley videos from NockOn on youtube, he's got a really good series on archery and will likely provide you a bunch of tips you can try to use to fix grouping issues.

The Dudley School of nock helped me greatly with my form.

What bow are you shooting? Some are more grip sensitive.

Maybe have someone video you in slow motion to see if there is a breakdown in your form.

 

[theleo91386]

Too long if draw length is one of the most common issues with inconsistent anchors. If your bow is adjustable and you know how to adjust it then set the draw so that the string is in front of your nose just barely touching it.

A poorly tuned bow and poorly built arrows normally can still shoot very well at 20 yards. Consistency is key! Fletchings correct any major flight issues, your issue is where the pin is sitting when the arrow leaves the string.

Find a mirror, nock an arrow i and draw your bow standing parallel to it. Keep your finger off of the trigger and without moving your head use your eyes to look over and see what you look like. Having someone video you or take a picture at full draw works if you have someone there.


Here are a couple pics.
View attachment 210584

Here is my wife, she uses a wrist strap, notice the string is barely touching her nose with very little face pressure.
View attachment 210576

Here is a picture right after the above shot. Notice the follow through, bow still pointed toward the target and arm still in shot position. She is also in an open stance with the front leg slightly back

View attachment 210577

I agree with shooting a hinge release, my boys have been shooting a truball sweet spot since they were 9. A wrist strap can be shot just as well and can be shot with back tension. My 14 year old can outshoot 90% of the adults i shot with. He has very good form and follow through but most of the time rush's a shot. You can see here, even on uneven ground he is standing up square to his bow and not leaning forward and back with his hips.
View attachment 210585

There are several easy tips to help consistency, probably the easiest is a kisser button, it will allow for the string to come back to the exact spot every single time. Two points of contact are way better than 1, if you have a kisser and you touch it to the corner of your relaxed mouth every time along with having the string touch the very tip of your nose then you will have a very consistent shot and should be stacking arrows at 20 yards.

Hand torque is another big issue, this is my youngest son's biggest problem, you can tell instantly when he starts torquing the bow because his groups open up instantly. You want a totally relaxed from hand on the bow with the majority of the grip pressing against the pad under your thumb.

For your anchor, with your hand, it needs to be consistent, I always use to make an L with my right thumb and index finger and place that L right behind my jawbone so that the jaw was centered in the L. This is consistent for me and a solid repeatable anchor.

You should be able to close your eyes, draw your bow all the way to anchor, touch your nose to the string slightly and then open your eyes. If your anchor, loop and peep are correct you should be looking through a perfectly centered peep when you open your eyes. If you can't do this then you should go to a pro shop and have them adjust all of those things until you can.

Once all of those things are correct then it's time for the shot.

When your shooting focus on the target where you want to hit, set your relaxed finger on the trigger and start pulling into the wall with your back muscles, pretend you're squeezing a ball between your shoulder muscles. Allow the motion of pulling backward to drag your relaxed finger over the trigger and activate it. The entire time don’t stop focusing on the spot you want to hit. Your brain naturally centers the pin over the center of that spot and when your shot brakes.

If you need a visual draw a circle on a piece of paper, start on one side of it and start going back and forth across that paper with a pen from side to side, up and down all around the paper, each time you do that the pin crosses the center and eventually you will have a dark dot in the center. Your arrow does the same thing on the target so the more you focus and execute slow surprise shots the more ofter your arrow will land in the center, it spends over twice as much time crossing the center of the target than any other spot.

Punching does just the opposite, when you punch your either coming down or up on the target and then hitting the trigger when the pin is centered. The problem is that by the time your eyes recognize the pin is centered, tell your brain, and then your brain tells your finger to pull the pin has already moved off target which causes misses. Some people shoot decent like this but the further the distance the more this is amplified and the bigger your misses. Also people that tend to always miss high or low are suffering from target panic. My son comes from under the bullseye and when he starts punching he starts hitting high, when I notice this I have him start coming down on the target and remind him to focus on the shot.

My biggest piece of advice is to not get caught up on silly stuff like speed. Having too long of a draw length is the #1 thing that I see that people who can't shoot consistently have in common, a lot of people shoot as long of a draw as possible to get that little extra speed.

Learning how to work on your own equipment and shooting year-round helps as well.

I didn't realize you lived in that valley. Always had you pegged for a North Powder resident. If you hunt back in that Wilderness that's behind your wife and ever need help packing an elk, give me a holler.

 

[nphunter]

I didn't realize you lived in that valley. Always had you pegged for a North Powder resident. If you hunt back in that Wilderness that's behind your wife and ever need help packing an elk, give me a holler.

Thanks!

I grew up in North Powder, when I opened up my ifish account I lived there and just kept the user name. I actually lived in Lagrande until last fall.

 

[theleo91386]

Thanks!

I grew up in North Powder, when I opened up my ifish account I lived there and just kept the user name. I actually lived in Lagrande until last fall.

Well, I guess I can forgive you for growing up there, it's not like you had a say in the matter (I graduated from Cove in 2005). Seriously though, give me a holler if you ever need help with an animal back there. I'm always looking for an excuse to dodge work in the Tri-citties to screw around over there with mules.

 

[Vermont Hunter 34]

More practice? Consistent anchor? Target panic? Are you sure your arrows are correct for your bow? How much movement are you seeing before your arrow releases? All might help, but without more information it's difficult to tell

What's your bow and arrow setup? How much are practicing?

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I am practicing every night now about 30 minutes each. I have a bear cruzer g2 youth model. The poundage is 47 pounds. The arrows are carbon easton St Excels. they are 340s. It says 9.5 gpl on the side as well. I also have a drop-away rest.
I also have a kisser.

Some good suggestions^

Can I ask....when you release do you know where the pin was and the arrow will hit? In other words, can you call the shot?

My guess is no. If you can call the shot that means you are holding form and getting a somewhat surprise release seeing the arrow leave the bow.

If you put the pin on the spot and punch it...that makes for bad habits/erratic groups.

Is your equipment tuned? Bad arrow flight causes erratic groups. I helped OK shooters tune their bows...and they started stacking them in there, arrows touching.

They were good shots with badly tuned equipment.

Yes, I am slightly surprised when the arrow flies after I sqeeze the trigger. The bow has been in a corner collecting dust after bow season last year, I should probably get it tuned at drop tine archery pretty soon. I aim pretty slow as well. My form, I know, is pretty poor, as well. I do kinda call the shot as well. I know when I slip, I know when I pull, and I know when I get a solid good shot.

^^^^^This, shorten the distance, shoot 1 arrow at a time,figure out how to get the arrow to hit the same hole over and over at around 5 yards or so.

I always start my sessions at roughly 10 yards. When I can fit my index and thumb around the arrows 3 rounds in a row, then I move back to 20 yards. At that point, I shoot at 20 for 10 rounds, then I am pretty shaky and I stop. This takes around 45 mintues.
Thanks

 

[Nillion]

Do you guys have any tips on how to get tighter groups? This is my second year bowhunting, however, my groups have suffered. My groups are all 4-5 inches apart, and I have little time until bow season. My dad does not want me to bowhunt unless I have proficient enough groupings at 20-25 yards. Thanks.

I'm a new archery and found the School of Nock to be invaluable. You're running short on time with the season approaching, but if you're able to get through at least the first several videos to work on fundamentals, it'll do wonders for your accuracy.

 

[Vermont Hunter 34]

I'm a new archery and found the School of Nock to be invaluable. You're running short on time with the season approaching, but if you're able to get through at least the first several videos to work on fundamentals, it'll do wonders for your accuracy.

Thanks! This I am sure will help out!

 

[Vermont Hunter 34]

Took my bow to Runnings, got it tuned up. The length was too short. I also had to get a new loop for the release, the other one was frayed to junk.

 

[Fatcamp]

Took my bow to Runnings, got it tuned up. The length was too short. I also had to get a new loop for the release, the other one was frayed to junk.

I recently took our bows to a local archery shop and got them tuned properly. Night and day difference. Had previously been going to a local box store type place that did work, but were not as detail oriented as needed for long distance shooting.

We both are shooting far tighter groups.

 

[Fatcamp]

Instead of focusing on getting tighter groups, focus on getting a good feeling shot. That shot where as soon as you take it you go "ohh, that felt good." There's a ton of good advice on here but keep in mind that tight groups really aren't the goal, they're the bi-product of consistency. When shots go wild, ask yourself what was inconsistent with that shot form the time you draw the bow till the arrow hits the target. What about that shot didn't feel or look good from the shots that do?

Trust the pin float. If that pin isn't moving, you're going to mess things up. Slowing the float down with a stabilizer that actually stabilizes your bow helps there, but you don't want the pin to ever come to a dead stop. Get the consistency down and groups will tighten up. Once the groups are consistent you just play a trick on your brain and move the sight. You're brain will be wired for the consistency and adjust to maintain the consistent sight picture.

I don't know who you are but the advice on pin float is really helping me. Some tuning improvements have slowed it down and trusting it is making a big difference. Thank you.

 

[theleo91386]

I don't know who you are but the advice on pin float is really helping me. Some tuning improvements have slowed it down and trusting it is making a big difference. Thank you.

Just a random guy on the internet that has picked up a thing or two from people that are better shots than me. Trusting the float is something I struggle with every so often. My pin will start freezing up on a spot and I'll just let down and if I can't keep it moving I just let down. There's no reason for me to take a shot I know has things going wrong with it anyway. Using a hand held release (hinge or thumb trigger) can help slow things down so you can keep that pin moving instead of freezing up just before the shot. Yes you can do fine with an index, but the hand held's give you more options to initiate the shot so you can find the way you like.