Thoughts on clothes from China

[MuleDeerMike]

This would be a great podcast topic. If someone could get Sitka on a podcast and ask them why their products are not made in the USA. Not just Sitka but all the premium hunting clothing manufacturers.
I like my Sitka but I would love it if it was made in the USA.
Kuiu seems to be doing pretty good. There products don’t fit me as well as Sitka.

Pointless. They would give you the run around and a bunch of BS reasons and never say that it's only for their profit margins. Which is 100% what it is.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

Maybe we need a Made in USA thread. Only posts allowed are links to US companies. Might step on a few sponsors toes, so probably check with a Mod first

Best idea I've seen on Rokslide in a long time!

 

[cuerro viejo]

Military is USA made.

Most military stuff is built/assembled etc out of PR

 

[arwhntr]

I agree, I'm willing to pay more for made in the USA but I do think its a false generalization that it's "cheaper to manufacturer overseas and better quality if made in the USA". Regarding clothing manufacturing the US lacks mass production factories, has little investment in upgrading and updating factories/equipment and certainly doesn't possess the skilled labor force that countries like China and Vietnam have.

 

[Mt Al]

USA Made Thread, dooo iiiit!

We are at "war" with China. Their government sponsored procurement of companies is strategic: Cirrus Avaition among many others. Feel free to look it up. Their manufacturing of islands and claiming them as new territory. Their involvement in developing countries. Our kindness and patience is their greatest weapon.

Made in USA packs vs cloths is apples to pumpkins: still a plant but different things. Packs come in few sizes, material cost are a higher percentage vs. labor (not always, but many cases) and, overall, fewer different pieces of equipment to build a pack. Clothing: many more sizes, more technique/technology/steep learning curve, more kinds of equipment to buy and learn to use, maintain, etc.. Not that it can't be done, just more work and I hereby pinky swear to look harder for USA made stuff.

Simms waders are made in the USA and they are not easy to put together, come in many sizes. Pretty cool operation and maybe a model others will follow. Some of their Torray wader uppers come from overseas (not China in this case) and are final assembled in their factory.

IMHO, we need to bring drugs and other tech things back on shore, reduce or eliminate their ability to buy our leading tech companies. Not just China either. Cue "free trade spreads love" crowd responses.

My 2 cents.

 

[Tylerb]

I absolutely would pay more for USA made. Unfortunately, some brands just don’t have the quality. For instance, craftsman tools. They started making some tools in the USA again but they’re garbage. I find that USA made products are either top notch, great quality or the complete opposite. There’s few brands in between for the average person, which forces guys to buy foreign made equipment.

 

[Scottyboy]

Origin in Maine makes jeans, shoes etc all made from material entirely produced/consumed in the USA, I believe the saying is dirt to shirt?? (Even the Cotton is from the USA). Their prices are not that more expensive than any other brand, please do not compare your jeans you get at Walmart for 2.99 to their prices, but in general.

 

[Michiganhunter]

I wish there was something like a berry amendment for at least medicine and other stuff like that.

 

[EastMT]

I put aMade in the USA thread up , made sure to list it as positive for companies that do rather than bash ones that don’t. We have negative threads all over, let’s have a positive one

 

[Coldtrail]

I know it's not popular these days in the hunting community, but buying second hand is a great option for getting your hands on quality gear. When I was hard up for cash I bought lots of Filson, Woolrich, LL Bean and others stuff for next to nothing before much of it went overseas. I have some Frost River packs and military surplus gear that has been around for years and still holding up just fine. Is it the best? Nope, does it get the job done without failing..yes.

I think we get caught up in feeling like we need the latest high tech gear, camo pattern, or rifle. I'm doing just fine in a wool shirt and a Winchester model 88 that consistently shoots minute of deer/elk even with open sights. Hell, I still run the factory tire size on my truck & still am able to get out there

 

[jacknifejc]

I haven’t bought clothing made in China for over 25 years. If it wasn’t for my iPhone and iPad I could avoid Chinese made goods altogether.

 

[Shrek]

I believe that Kenton explored making First Lite in the USA and found there wasn’t the capacity available to have his stuff made here. It would take a company with deep pockets to build the factory and train the people. Then they have to compete with third world labor costs and safety standards. As long as the borders are open to the third world there will be no mass consumer clothing made here. Only small companies making limited amounts for the niche markets. There has to be a federal import control policy for the companies to commit to building here in the USA.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I believe that Kenton explored making First Lite in the USA and found there wasn’t the capacity available to have his stuff made here. It would take a company with deep pockets to build the factory and train the people. Then they have to compete with third world labor costs and safety standards. As long as the borders are open to the third world there will be no mass consumer clothing made here. Only small companies making limited amounts for the niche markets. There has to be a federal import control policy for the companies to commit to building here in the USA.

Pretty much sums it up.

3 majority factors labor, tax costs and EPA regulation costs....

Same thing with energy independence(this has changed for the positive vastly in last 4 years)how many refineries on the southern coast are formulated for light sweet crude......

 

[CorbLand]

Has anyone ever done the math to see if it really makes sense to move things back to the US? In my basic knowledge/shower thoughts it goes like this. If I make 50,000 and it costs me 30,000 to live that leaves me with 20,000 to spend on other items. If we moved everything back to the US and it increased costs by 50%(this is probably low) then I would all of a sudden have to spend 45000 to live and only have 5000 to spend on other stuff. Honestly seems like it would hurt the economy of the US more than it would help it as we have a lot of businesses that are built around leisure and luxury items. Those businesses rely on disposable income and that would decrease if costs went up.

 

[Shrek]

Has anyone ever done the math to see if it really makes sense to move things back to the US? In my basic knowledge/shower thoughts it goes like this. If I make 50,000 and it costs me 30,000 to live that leaves me with 20,000 to spend on other items. If we moved everything back to the US and it increased costs by 50%(this is probably low) then I would all of a sudden have to spend 45000 to live and only have 5000 to spend on other stuff. Honestly seems like it would hurt the economy of the US more than it would help it as we have a lot of businesses that are built around leisure and luxury items. Those businesses rely on disposable income and that would decrease if costs went up.

Except that the money would not leave the country and circulate here increasing wealth and buying power and the cost difference would fall dramatically as the manufacturing scale efficiencies would kick in as more factories are here. As the manufacturing has left the infrastructure costs are being spread among fewer and fewer manufacturers.

 

[MuleyFever]

Has anyone ever done the math to see if it really makes sense to move things back to the US? In my basic knowledge/shower thoughts it goes like this. If I make 50,000 and it costs me 30,000 to live that leaves me with 20,000 to spend on other items. If we moved everything back to the US and it increased costs by 50%(this is probably low) then I would all of a sudden have to spend 45000 to live and only have 5000 to spend on other stuff. Honestly seems like it would hurt the economy of the US more than it would help it as we have a lot of businesses that are built around leisure and luxury items. Those businesses rely on disposable income and that would decrease if costs went up.

There are many factors that make it beneficial to the overall economy to have products made over seas. If everything was made here it would be more expensive as you stated and we would all have less disposable income. This would slow the velocity of money, not increase it. It would also hurt domestic companies that depend on exports because any efforts to slow imports will likely lead to other countries paying us back in the same way. As prices rose incomes may have to rise and then we just see higher inflation.

 

[CorbLand]

Except that the money would not leave the country and circulate here increasing wealth and buying power and the cost difference would fall dramatically as the manufacturing scale efficiencies would kick in as more factories are here. As the manufacturing has left the infrastructure costs are being spread among fewer and fewer manufacturers.

But there are things that you can’t get around in the US, thus costs can’t fall to a level that overseas can. You have to pay people twice as much. It’s twice as expensive to build things. Land is twice as expensive. So maybe my math is correct and it would only increase 50% still would decrease my disposable income. I just don’t see it as the end all be all to a strong economy that people claim it to be. I think we have certain segments of the economy that we think are important and forget about some other very major ones.

Unless everyone's income is going to increase by the amount costs increase, its not going to help the economy. Even if everyone's incomes increases by that same amount, it really didn't do anything.

Overall it seems like it would wash in my mind. You would increase manufacturing but decrease more luxury/leisure spending. Thus you are not really increasing or building your economy, just trading one portion of it for another.

 

[Shrek]

Another thing that will drive down costs is automation. If you can use dirt cheap foreign labor there’s little incentive to invest in technology but if you can’t avoid higher labor costs the best way forward is to use less labor.
Agriculture is one area that’s ripe for automation. Just a decade ago all the blueberries were hand picked locally. Problem was the farmers couldn’t get enough Central American migrant workers to pick all the berries in a timely fashion. Now all the berries are picked by machines. Now three Americans running a machine and loading the cases of berries does what used to be done by bus loads of migrants. If the incentive is there to find a better way it will be found. I can easily see ai partially self programming cnc machines cutting and sewing clothing. I can see robots taking rolls of cloth and loading cutting machines then taking the cut fabric and loading it into a machine that assembles it. Another robot that takes the finished clothes and packages it. Even much of the basic maintenance will be done by robots. As this scales up all of it will become cheaper and eventually a child working in Bangladesh of a dollar or two a day won’t be able to compete on cost and certainly not on quality. Defects will fall to near zero.

 

[Shrek]

There is also going to be losers who will never benefit. They’re just too genetically disadvantaged to be educated enough for the jobs that will exist for humans. “the world needs ditch diggers too”...but it won’t !

 

[AKDoc]

About six or seven years ago I made a new year's resolution to not buy anything made in China that year. I made it for about a month before I ran into a situation that I really needed an item (it wasn't clothing...don't even remember what it was), but I could ONLY find made in China for it.

I'm very much hoping that one positive to come out of this is an awakening of our dependence on foreign manufacturing...especially China...and we take deliberate actions to increase domestic production and reduce and/or eliminate our dependence on others...especially China (repeated intentionally!).