Thor bullet results in elk camp CO

[cooperjd]

This year my pops and I did a guided hunt near Norwood, CO. I was the only guy in camp toting a bow, the other 7 hunters had muzzleloaders.

my pops had my T/C Omega shooting 100gr blackhorn 209 and 250gr Thors.
He shot a bull at 85 yards, hit the quartering away bull too far back. The bullet turned up a bit (thankfully), clipped the artery along the spine, broke a vertebrae, and lodged in the offside skin with no exit. The bull died in 50 yards due to the artery hit. The lack of an exit kinda sucked, but he did hit a bone. 3 of the petals were peeled out as pictured, and one was folded in and the polymer tip was held in place by the in-folded petal.

2 IL guys in camp also shot Thors. They were shooting 110gr of Blackhorn and 250gr Thors.

-One guy shot a bull in the shoulder around 75 yards and no exit. With no blood to follow, and the elk ran quite a ways, it was found a day later by finding some birds on the elk. A necropsy was not done to find out if the bullet got into both lungs or just one with the shoulder shot, and not sure exactly what bones were hit.

-The other IL guy shot a cow elk at i believe 80 yards perfectly broadside, perfect lung shot behind the shoulder. The cow ran 10 yards and dropped, but again, no exit. They could not find the bullet when gutting/skinning the elk.

I was a little disappointed in the lack of penetration of the solid copper Thors.

A Florida guy in camp shot the 270gr bore-locks, and also did not get an exit wound on a cow elk.

2 other guys in camp were shooting powerbelts, but I can't remember exactly how they performed. One guy's elk did not bleed and ran ~700y after initially hitting the dirt; it was a miracle they found him, and one of the guides just happened to walk into him while grid searching.

The Thors fly really well for me, but I may bump up to the 300grainers before chasing elk with them again. This area was incredibly thick, and if you do not get blood, trailing them is all but impossible. Especially on the guys broadside cow I was expecting an exit hole.

Just our experience over the first 5 days of CO mz season.

 

[MuleyFever]

I shot a deer a couple years ago with a 300gr Thor on top of 100gr of BH209. The shot was about 50yds. I hit a little farther back than I wanted and the bullet did not pass through. He only went 30yds and I shot him again. Again no pass through. I was a bit surprised.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Do full caliber bullets (as required by CO) typically pass through at muzzleloaders speeds? Its a big bullet that isn’t going that fast.

My only experience with them is on smaller animals, I got a pass through but elk are big and tough so the CO requirements might be limiting effective pass through shots in general (vs smaller bullet diameters in sabots moving faster)?

 

[cooperjd]

pods8, potentially the velocity could be an issue. I have not chrono'd my thor bullets yet. maybe next range visit... I also think with the 100% or close to it weight retention of the solid coppers i would've seen better penetration. Especially with the guy shooting the broadside cow with 110gr of blackhorn.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Yes they have high weight retention but they also open up to a pretty wide frontal area (which is doing internal damage but also creates a lot of resistance too). I also don't know my MV but muzzies aren't screaming fast. My thought is how 9mm out penetrate 45acp for instance, the latter creates more damage in its path which is good for killing power on a human thickness target but if you need to drive a bullet deeper it needs to be faster (potentially smaller dia also, but certainly faster). If hunting elk folks may want to see if their gun groups with a closer to max powder charge maybe?

Again smaller bodied critter data point but I had pass through (broadside rear lungs/liver hit) on a bigger body buck antelope this weekend. 100gr blackhorn 209, CCI 209 primer, with the 300gr thor, ~70-100yd range (I didn't range him, he looked sub 100yd and I shot).

Not sure if its any factor whatsoever but I have the bullets sized such that they take pretty firm pressure to push down the barrel so there is definitely a tight seal at the base of the bullet but I'd imagine the pressure building behind even a loose fit would expand the rear cup regardless so probably not relevant.

 

[brandent111]

Shot a cow two weeks ago with the 247gr HP Thor, 73 yards broadside, hit a little back but zero exit. She piled up in 30 yards but I was surprised it didn’t punch thru. Kind of weird but now I see I’m not alone.

 

[ole hunter]

I have been harvesting them with a 460gr bullshop all lead bullet and no pass threw bullets as a matter don't remember my 300 win mag 180gr bullet pass threw any body shots.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Just a point of reference again on this topic, again antelope =/= elk. Shot a buck quartering towards through near side shoulder, shredded the heart (it was in pieces), exited ribs behind the offside shoulder half dollar sized hole. 300gr over 110gr buckhorn

 

[fishslap]

Not at all the same load but I just shot a young bull at 60-70 yards with a Lyman gpr, 90gr 2f triple 7, .535 round ball, .010 mink oil lubed patch, #11 CCI cap. Hit low just behind the front shoulder broadside. Ran 50 yards, made a sharp turn and piled up. Died a few seconds after I got to him. No sign of trail-able blood from the wounds but had full pass through and looked like it took out the bottom part of both lungs pretty good. Lots of blood in the body cavity. Exit wound wasn’t much damage and I was able to take that side of ribs. Just providing this as some alternate data.

 

[Newtosavage]

Honestly, I wonder how ethical ML seasons on animals as big as elk really are. Yes, yes, I know - lots of dead elk to show for it - but honestly I think some days a bow is more effective than a full bore ML bullet going 1500 fps.

 

[ENCORE]

Honestly, I wonder how ethical ML seasons on animals as big as elk really are. Yes, yes, I know - lots of dead elk to show for it - but honestly I think some days a bow is more effective than a full bore ML bullet going 1500 fps.

Shot placement, regardless of what weapon is used, is the most important.

Hunters, both bow and firearm, lose more animals because of PP shot placement than any other reason. We've all hear "that guy" say, 'I put it right in the boiler room and lost the animal because of no blood'. Really? In the boiler room?

High shots, even great high shots, can allow more internal bleeding and body cavity retention than lower shot placement. High lung shots, although generally lethal, may shed blood and may not, yet its still a lethal shot. There's a lot of body cavity to fill at times, thus a lessor blood trail. Put the arrow/bullet lower through the heart, and tracking jobs are easy and short.

 

[mac87toy]

Take this for what you will from a newbie ML guy, but with the reading i've been doing and looking for a good all around bullet for best penetrations (two holes) for antelope to elk sized animals there isn't one! Looking at everything from powder charge and bullet weight and design for elk size animals the bullet should weigh in the 350+ range to have a chance at consistent pass through shots. obviously you can go smaller on antelope/deer/black bear but an elk is a BIG strong animal, much stronger then most people give them credit including myself until i killed my first one. Again, i'm a newbie with a muzzle loader, but I will build my gun to run two loads. One for antelope/deer/bear and one for elk/moose. I rifle hunt with a 270, wife killed her moose with a 270 and I primarily bow hunt, but ML are a different animal completely from rifles and bows. So if there are any guys on here that are die hard ML elk hunters please let me know if my thinking is on or flat our wrong. For me as of now and my reading they should have been shooting heavier bullets to get the pass through they were looking for.

 

[Loco4dux]

Thanks for the report.

I'm new to ML also. I leave next week to NM using 350gr Boreloks with BH209.

 

[Muley Buck]

Thanks for the report.

I'm new to ML also. I leave next week to NM using 350gr Boreloks with BH209.

Go get em!!

 

[txhunter581]

I have always felt 250 is just too small for an elk. Most people shooting 290-300 gr copper bullets report good results. For lead type bullets I use only 350 and up, usually 460 gr lead

As to Muzzy bullets not being effective, I am here to tell you big slow bullets penetrate and kill! Just think about a 460 grain of lead hitting you at 1500 ft PER SECOND.

 

[ole hunter]

Oregon changed the law on bullet this year ,I decided to try a full bore conical bullet like the Hornady FPB copper jacket lead core hollow point 350 grain bullet. had to pull plastic tip to hollow point . Had great success .My elk at 144 yards, one shot straight down and died before I could reload . weighed the 350 grain bullet after retrieved it 252 grain ,100 rain of bullet came apart and was in vital organs except liver ,, I like this bullet a little hard to load but worth effort with results like this.. fastest kill shot so far , by the way I didn't see the collar until after I got there , but was dam glad they weren't spike antlers like I thought they were when she hit the ground .

 

[Stalker69]

I shot a six point bull a few years back with 110 gr. Goex, hornady Great Plains bullet( 54 cal) . Broad side through both lungs and bullet was just under the hide on the off side. I have the bullet, but never weighed it. I ordered some bullets from a place years ago, precision muzzel loading bullets if I remember correctly, Keith style bullets but never put one through or into an animal. I don’t think they make them any more. But I thought if any bullet would get two holes those would. I am going to have to look, I probably still have some.

 

[Stalker69]

I just went and looked and they don’t make them any more, but while I was searching I found “no excuses bullets” they are a Keith style bullet they offer them in various 50 cal sizes and a 535 gr. 54 cal. Any body use them ?

 

[Schism]

These aren’t my bullets but those from a hunting buddy. The one on the left is a 300 grain Thor recovered from a bull shot broadside at 150 yards. The other is a 250 grain Thor recovered from a bull shot in the shoulder (meat no bone) while quartering to the shooter at 50 yards. Both bullets were found just under the offside hide. Weight loss on each bullet was 3.5 grains. I found the plastic tip from the 250 while butchering and weighed it at 2.6 grains. Bullet performance seems to be more than adequate and both bulls were recovered quickly. As can be seen in the first image, the 250 Thor expanded to a diameter larger than my thumb. The bullet had traveled from the entrance in the shoulder to just behind the ribs on the off side.

 

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Have had the same experience with the Thor’s they do good work but don’t always get an exit. I started using big lead conicals and have only recovered one bullet since everything else has been a pass through with big holes.