Thermal Optics Setup for Western Predator Hunting

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Looking to get a thermal scope and scanner setup for hunting yotes and bobcats in the west. Public land, lots of different locations, big country. Looking at ~$2k for the scope and ~$2.5k for the monocular with LRF. Considering 384 resolution in the scope and 640 in the monocular. Max shot distance will be what is reasonable given the quality of the image and ID range, but 300 is preferable, 200 expected. I've read a lot of forum threads here and elsewhere, but given how fast tech is moving and all of the different price/resolution ranges the threads get outdated pretty quickly.

Below is what I've narrowed down the options to based on hours of scouring various optics dealers and youtube review. I've cross-referenced each manufacturer's website to eliminate any previous model versions from consideration (i.e. AGM Fuzion LRF monocular, now ReachIR LRF, Pulsar Talion XQ 35 now the XQ 35 PRO). Any thoughts on my rankings or additional suggestions? Thermals are a whole new world but I think I've captured the main players who have options in my price range.

Open to suggestions on the following:

- LRF in the optic vs monocular. Though process is that I'll be using the scanner to get into range rather than guessing and ranging with the optic on the weapon.

- Scope form factor. The AR style seems to be appropriate given I'll only be using on AR's, but if there are more benefits to the traditional scope form factor I'm not aware of.

- Hybrid scope/monocular (i.e. iRay SLIM H35). Not seeing a good option there with LRF and not sure how confident I am in the RTZ functionality, but it would be nice to be able to lend to a buddy for two shooters.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

You are correct, the tech is moving so fast in this space that its hard to keep up. With that being said I'd give Jason Roberston @ Outdoor Legacy Gear 877-350-1818. No affiliation with them I just know he is a straight shooter who will help in any way he can.

I've been in the thermal game now for about 5-6 years and the units you have selected will definitely work. I'm not a big fan of the Talion (pretty sure this is a 17-micron unit which I would avoid) or any of the cheaper pulsar units as they lack tremendously in higher humidity conditions.
Definitely stay away from that rattler v2 ts25-384 and the BOLT TL25 SE as that is only 2-16X and you're going to want something with a base mag of at least 3x if you're going to be expecting shots in the 200-yard range, remember every time you zoom you cut your resolution in half.

Of the scopes you listed id go with the rattler v2 ts35-384

I don't like the FH35R V2 LRF just because the IBP-2 battery packs are expensive

I have the ReachIR LRF and its a decent scanner, image quality is not out of this world for a 640 unit but its decent given the price. I really like that it utilizes 18650s which are a lot cheaper so you can have lots of spares which is huge because all these thermal units burn through batteries when you have them out in the cold. The button layout on this is also more friendly compared to the FH35R V2 LRF especially when wearing bigger gloves in the winter.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

You are correct, the tech is moving so fast in this space that its hard to keep up. With that being said I'd give Jason Roberston @ Outdoor Legacy Gear 877-350-1818. No affiliation with them I just know he is a straight shooter who will help in any way he can.

I've been in the thermal game now for about 5-6 years and the units you have selected will definitely work. I'm not a big fan of the Talion (pretty sure this is a 17-micron unit which I would avoid) or any of the cheaper pulsar units as they lack tremendously in higher humidity conditions.
Definitely stay away from that rattler v2 ts25-384 and the BOLT TL25 SE as that is only 2-16X and you're going to want something with a base mag of at least 3x if you're going to be expecting shots in the 200-yard range, remember every time you zoom you cut your resolution in half.

Of the scopes you listed id go with the rattler v2 ts35-384

I don't like the FH35R V2 LRF just because the IBP-2 battery packs are expensive

I have the ReachIR LRF and its a decent scanner, image quality is not out of this world for a 640 unit but its decent given the price. I really like that it utilizes 18650s which are a lot cheaper so you can have lots of spares which is huge because all these thermal units burn through batteries when you have them out in the cold. The button layout on this is also more friendly compared to the FH35R V2 LRF especially when wearing bigger gloves in the winter.

Thanks, I forgot to mention that I will definitely be giving Outdoor Legacy Gear a call along with a few other vendors. Hoping to have my preferences dialed so we can have an efficient/effective conversation. Watched a lot of their videos along with Feral Texas Outdoors and Fall River Shooters. Entering the analysis paralysis phase so it's time for the forum post and vendor phone call steps of my process! haha

Good point on the Talion, it is a 17um and <25mk unit. Youtube video makes the image look pretty comparable to the AGM TS35-384, but I understand the video export quality doesn't equal what you see in the scope. Something like a 40% reduction in quality. The Pulsar name and huge price cut on them might have influenced my ranking a bit too much.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

- LRF in the optic vs monocular. Though process is that I'll be using the scanner to get into range rather than guessing and ranging with the optic on the weapon.

this is what I do, I don't record hunts or mess with any of the buttons on my scope while hunting, always on base mag with PIP on. I am looking through my scanner 95% of time so usually I'll range some landmarks right away and then I can easily do more ranging later on during the stand if the need arises. And honestly once you get a bunch of experience under your belt you can just tell by the size of animal in the scope if its in range or not but right away the LRF is handy because your depth perception is all messed up.

Scope form factor. The AR style seems to be appropriate given I'll only be using on AR's, but if there are more benefits to the traditional scope form factor I'm not aware of.

Does not matter IMO.

- Hybrid scope/monocular (i.e. iRay SLIM H35). Not seeing a good option there with LRF and not sure how confident I am in the RTZ functionality, but it would be nice to be able to lend to a buddy for two shooters.

Wouldn't mess with it. Some guys i know swear by the RTZ but i never wanted to deal with it. I know some people have just bought another scope and they use that for scanning when SOLO and then they attach it to spare rifle for buddy but that gets dangerous having 2 guys without scanners spinning 360s around a tripod in the dark with loaded AR's. My opinion would be just get the dedicated scanner and pick up a cheap scope down the line for a buddy set-up.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Updated my list after talking to Hans at Outdoor Legacy and Jason at Feral Texas Outdoors today. Added a few Nocpix offerings that I had overlooked somehow.

The Ace L35 is intriguing with the ocular zoom and larger screen (spec not listed in spreadsheet), but the 2x weight is a big negative. It does Wifi link with the Vista to display ranges that the Vista is getting, so that might be a big positive for me in a shooter/spotter situation or even solo. More versatile for a bolt action application, but less versatile as secondary scanner. I'm more thoroughly considering the scope being used as a secondary "buddy" scanner.

In the original post, I was more considering a 640 LRF scanner option that could be used as a scope. This consideration is more along the lines of a 384 non-LRF scope that could be used as a scanner.

The Vista is the clear winner for me on the monocular side. Might have to sleep on the Rattler V2 TS35-384 vs Ace L35-384 on the scope side.

Hopefully my ramblings and excessive analyzation will be helpful to someone else looking in the near future.

Side note: apparently the 18650 batteries are NOT a standard size. Same diameter, varying lengths...that's strange. So you couldn't necessarily buy an AGM ReachIR and Nocpix Slim L35 and use the 18650 batteries interchangeably.

 

[Skerhunter]

Updated my list after talking to Hans at Outdoor Legacy and Jason at Feral Texas Outdoors today. Added a few Nocpix offerings that I had overlooked somehow.

The Ace L35 is intriguing with the ocular zoom and larger screen (spec not listed in spreadsheet), but the 2x weight is a big negative. It does Wifi link with the Vista to display ranges that the Vista is getting, so that might be a big positive for me in a shooter/spotter situation or even solo. More versatile for a bolt action application, but less versatile as secondary scanner. I'm more thoroughly considering the scope being used as a secondary "buddy" scanner.

In the original post, I was more considering a 640 LRF scanner option that could be used as a scope. This consideration is more along the lines of a 384 non-LRF scope that could be used as a scanner.

The Vista is the clear winner for me on the monocular side. Might have to sleep on the Rattler V2 TS35-384 vs Ace L35-384 on the scope side.

Hopefully my ramblings and excessive analyzation will be helpful to someone else looking in the near future.

Side note: apparently the 18650 batteries are NOT a standard size. Same diameter, varying lengths...that's strange. So you couldn't necessarily buy an AGM ReachIR and Nocpix Slim L35 and use the 18650 batteries interchangeably.

View attachment 855350

The iray scanner is on sale right now for $2k. Could save even more if you can find a slightly used one right now!

The ace is leading the way on your list for a scope. I would say stay above 3x base mag and 4 is ideal with a minimum 35mm objective (50 is nice).

The tech has changed super fast and prices have really came down. Most scopes with built in range finders now have internal ballistics calculators. Not necessary but shots get tricky past 200 if you don’t have a flat shooting gun (sub 5” drop to 300) and beyond 300 it’s hard. I wouldn’t be afraid to spend a little more on your main scope.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

The iray scanner is on sale right now for $2k. Could save even more if you can find a slightly used one right now!

The ace is leading the way on your list for a scope. I would say stay above 3x base mag and 4 is ideal with a minimum 35mm objective (50 is nice).

The tech has changed super fast and prices have really came down. Most scopes with built in range finders now have internal ballistics calculators. Not necessary but shots get tricky past 200 if you don’t have a flat shooting gun (sub 5” drop to 300) and beyond 300 it’s hard. I wouldn’t be afraid to spend a little more on your main scope.

The iRay FH35R? Yes, my understanding is the tech in the Nocpix Vista H35R is the newer iRay/Nocpix tech. That's at least what I inferred from talking to Hans at Outdoor Legacy Gear. Definitely interested in grabbing the latest and greatest with how fast tech is moving like you mentioned. Even if it comes at a cost premium.

I'm seeing contradicting info on the Ace L35 base magnification. Noted as 3-12 in some places, 4-16 in others. Maybe the confusion is due to the 1-3 ocular zoom? 4-16 is what is listed on the Nocpix website so that's what I listed.

 

[Skerhunter]

The iRay FH35R? Yes, my understanding is the tech in the Nocpix Vista H35R is the newer iRay/Nocpix tech. That's at least what I inferred from talking to Hans at Outdoor Legacy Gear. Definitely interested in grabbing the latest and greatest with how fast tech is moving like you mentioned. Even if it comes at a cost premium.

I'm seeing contradicting info on the Ace L35 base magnification. Noted as 3-12 in some places, 4-16 in others. Maybe the confusion is due to the 1-3 ocular zoom? 4-16 is what is listed on the Nocpix website so that's what I listed.

3x base mag and 4x digital zoom on the ACE. The screen resolution is where it out competes everything else on your list! It’s 384 but going to be more like 640 image on the older units. There are other options out there that do the same!

You really don’t want higher base mag with a 35mm objective because it cuts down the FOV.

I’m personally a fan of a range finder on the scope, especially when calling alone. When I pick up a dog I immediately ditch scanner and get on the gun. If I have to go back to scanner to get a range it’s hard to get follow up shots (esp if you need to mess with caller).

 

[SuperDUECE22]

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure NocPix uses the same exact thermal sensors as AGM & iRay so image quality will be similar, although the software & image processing algorithms can make a difference.

The iray scanner is on sale right now for $2k. Could save even more if you can find a slightly used one right now!

Have you personally used this scanner in the field? Button layout sucked especially with large winter gloves and that propriety battery is expensive, and you will need at least 3 or 4 of them to make it through an entire night of winter hunting unless the temps are seasonably warm.

Side note: apparently the 18650 batteries are NOT a standard size. Same diameter, varying lengths...that's strange. So you couldn't necessarily buy an AGM ReachIR and Nocpix Slim L35 and use the 18650 batteries interchangeably.

Correct, there are button top and flat top 18650's but for the price of one replacement IBP-7 or IBP-2 battery you can have lots of spare 18650s for your scanner. Not sure how cold your winters get but around here most guys don't even messes with the internal scope batteries because they wont last more than a set or 2. We all have external power supplies mounted on our handguards so we can go all night. Mine is a TNVC TRB that has an anker 6700mAh that will last all night in -20 and if its closer to 0 or anything above zero you can get a couple nights out of it.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

3x base mag and 4x digital zoom on the ACE. The screen resolution is where it out competes everything else on your list! It’s 384 but going to be more like 640 image on the older units. There are other options out there that do the same!

You really don’t want higher base mag with a 35mm objective because it cuts down the FOV.

I’m personally a fan of a range finder on the scope, especially when calling alone. When I pick up a dog I immediately ditch scanner and get on the gun. If I have to go back to scanner to get a range it’s hard to get follow up shots (esp if you need to mess with caller).

Interesting, both Hans and Jason recommended at least 3x base mag due to my use case.

Both recommended the Ace as well. Not only for the screen resolution, but its larger than others. Had screen dimension as a column in my spreadsheet but it proved difficult to find on all the different model specs.

As tempting as the Ace is, I've decided to go with the Nocpix Vista H35R LRF scanner and AGM Rattler V2 TS35-384 scope. If I end up loving thermal hunting I'll upgrade the scope to a 640, with LRF if I feel it would be beneficial.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

Interesting, both Hans and Jason recommended at least 3x base mag due to my use case.

Both recommended the Ace as well. Not only for the screen resolution, but its larger than others. Had screen dimension as a column in my spreadsheet but it proved difficult to find on all the different model specs.

As tempting as the Ace is, I've decided to go with the Nocpix Vista H35R LRF scanner and AGM Rattler V2 TS35-384 scope. If I end up loving thermal hunting I'll upgrade the scope to a 640, with LRF if I feel it would be beneficial.

Awesome
You're going to get hooked and hope to hear back from you on how you like or dislike the units you purchased. Feel free to reach out anytime.

Not to throw another wrench in the fire but what's your Tripod situation ?

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Awesome
You're going to get hooked and hope to hear back from you on how you like or dislike the units you purchased. Feel free to reach out anytime.

Not to throw another wrench in the fire but what's your Tripod situation ?

Thanks, I’m sure I’ll be hooked haha.

I just have lightweight carbon fiber Sirui with a K-10X ball head. I’m aware that I’ll likely want to upgrade to a sturdier unit.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

Thanks, I’m sure I’ll be hooked haha.

I just have lightweight carbon fiber Sirui with a K-10X ball head. I’m aware that I’ll likely want to upgrade to a sturdier unit.

That ball would work just fine but yeah I'd definitely try to upgrade tripods. If you are looking for something at a decent value, I'd look at a Innorel RT90C, it's not a RRS or a 2vets but for a fraction of the cost it's been good to me.

 

[Skerhunter]

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure NocPix uses the same exact thermal sensors as AGM & iRay so image quality will be similar, although the software & image processing algorithms can make a difference.


Have you personally used this scanner in the field? Button layout sucked especially with large winter gloves and that propriety battery is expensive, and you will need at least 3 or 4 of them to make it through an entire night of winter hunting unless the temps are seasonably warm.


Correct, there are button top and flat top 18650's but for the price of one replacement IBP-7 or IBP-2 battery you can have lots of spare 18650s for your scanner. Not sure how cold your winters get but around here most guys don't even messes with the internal scope batteries because they wont last more than a set or 2. We all have external power supplies mounted on our handguards so we can go all night. Mine is a TNVC TRB that has an anker 6700mAh that will last all night in -20 and if its closer to 0 or anything above zero you can get a couple nights out of it.

I have not used that specific scanner, but you can buy a lot of extra batteries for the $1000+ you could save on a used one right now or $700 what the vista costs.

With my current iray mk2 I can get through an entire night on 2 batteries. Slightly less run time than my 5k external battery packs. I had concerns about internal packs, but so far no issues. Also used to charging stuff between stands because my foxpro only lasts a few stands, so I plug stuff in between spots.