Theres no such thing as traditional

[Reburn]

Man all things being equal. I shoot rifles 400-800 all the time. In excess of 2k rounds a year. Last week I fluked out a .66 moa 3 shot group at 500 and a .55moa 5 shot group at 400. I gut shot a deer at 300 last year. I’m not even sure how it happened but it did and its embarrassing. Thats a chip shot for me anyday but that one. Practice makes perfect and even with tons of practice bad things happen. I still think its unrealistic to say you can pick up one of the most difficult weapon systems and claim to be able to be proficient inside a month. In fact, I don't believe personally it’s a good idea to pick up any weapon system and plan to hunt with it a month later. There are plenty of guys in the firearms section that can’t get better then 3" groups at 100 and plenty of compound archers that cant nail the 40 yard plate in the cold bow challenge. I'm not saying one should never hunt but lots of guys should take a step back and be honest with themselves on what they are actually capable of.

 

[Billy Goat]

I have to work on my communication skills.


I wish we were all at the same archery club.


We could find a new trad curious guy, and I could show you.


But that doesn't translate in writing.



If compound guys had to hold 55lbs at full draw, it would all the sudden be a struggle stick.


If trad guys only had to hold 15% of 55lbs they would be floored how good they get.....in short order.


I realize its not practical or maybe affordable to have 25-35-45-and 55lb traditional bows, and matching arrows, but if you start low, it doesn't take long to work your way up to hunting weights once you get the hang of it.

Your arguing components that are integral to the different systems. That's a lot of the reason why a stick bow is harder to master.

 

[BeaverHunter]

I have to work on my communication skills.


I wish we were all at the same archery club.


We could find a new trad curious guy, and I could show you.


But that doesn't translate in writing.



If compound guys had to hold 55lbs at full draw, it would all the sudden be a struggle stick.


If trad guys only had to hold 15% of 55lbs they would be floored how good they get.....in short order.


I realize its not practical or maybe affordable to have 25-35-45-and 55lb traditional bows, and matching arrows, but if you start low, it doesn't take long to work your way up to hunting weights once you get the hang of it.

Yea and if my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle.

 

[briscoetab]

Man all things being equal. I shoot rifles 400-800 all the time. In excess of 2k rounds a year. Last week I fluked out a .66 moa 3 shot group at 500 and a .55moa 5 shot group at 400. I gut shot a deer at 300 last year. I’m not even sure how it happened but it did and its embarrassing. Thats a chip shot for me anyday but that one. Practice makes perfect and even with tons of practice bad things happen. I still think its unrealistic to say you can pick up one of the most difficult weapon systems and claim to be able to be proficient inside a month. In fact, I don't believe personally it’s a good idea to pick up any weapon system and plan to hunt with it a month later. There are plenty of guys in the firearms section that can’t get better then 3" groups at 100 and plenty of compound archers that cant nail the 40 yard plate in the cold bow challenge. I'm not saying one should never hunt but lots of guys should take a step back and be honest with themselves on what they are actually capable of.

I also shoot long range, well beyond 1000 yards and shoot between 2000-3000 rounds a year probably and have shot several PRS comps. I’ve also had the similar experience of making a bad shot when I’m capable of making a good one; on the same day I shoot guy shot a deer at 400 yards and made a perfect shot on one at 750.

One huge difference for me between learning to shoot a rifle and bow is the fact that I can shoot the bow every single day.

I have an endless amount of private land to shoot my rifles on just right down the road but still shooting two days a week with the rifle is difficult for me to do just because of the amount of time it takes me to reload and keep up with having steady ammo supply as well as the time commitment. Usually when I’m shooting a lot, at most I shoot 2 days a week. I can and do dry fire but it’s not anywhere near the same as live fire practice.

Being able to shoot everyday with a bow is huge benefit to picking it up quickly. I don’t know how “proficient” I actually am yet, shooting a target I feel like I’m starting to get pretty decent but we shall see if I feel the same after deer and elk season.

I will argue that if you already understood the concepts behind shooting a rifle, mainly ballistic concepts and how to figure drops/wind drift you could probably pick up how to shoot a rifle pretty effectively to 1000 yards with a months worth of shooting everyday (Not 1000 yds at animals, I don’t do that but at targets). It’s really not that hard after you get the basics down but if you have to learn from scratch on your own, then yea it could take some time months-years even.

My previous post I said I had only been shooting a recurve for 2-3 months, I looked back at some of my photos and I actually started shooting in April. So I’ve been shooting 4 going on 5 months now and feel pretty good out to 35 yards. I would say after 2 months I started felling pretty good though but I had someone to show me the basics too and didn’t have to figure those things out on my own.

I agree with you though, one month likely is not enough time to pick something up and ethically shoot an animal with but there are probably some people who are exceptions to that. Someone who had someone to teach them, evaluate them and shoot everyday could probably do it. Someone who went to a rifle/bow clinic and immersed themselves in it for 5 days straight could probably do it as well. Somebody who just has a natural shooting ability and practiced everyday too.

Back to the original discussion though, I agree with the people saying if you took all the benefits of a compound away then you are not making any kind of proper comparison. It is really an apples/oranges comparison. It’s would be like comparing a rifle to a crossbow: if you you took the speed of the bullet away and made the bullet the length of a bolt from the crossbow and did this or that somebody could learn to shoot just as good with a crossbow at 200 yard as you could with the rifle.

 

[flytrue]

I used to shoot a compound and kidded my trad friends that they were making it so hard on themselves. I eventually tried a recurve and have never looked back. It helps to kill something with it, and now, the feeling of accomplishment is immense.
Trad bows are instruments, compounds are contraptions. I love the simplicity of it all.

 

[Beendare]

Trying to create controversy where there is none....thats all this thread is.

A stick bow is intentionally handicapping yourself with a primitive weapon...no more, no less.

I've probably killed 50 or more hogs, elk and deer at between 40-60 yds with a compound with almost a 100% success rate....can't do that with my recurve....and wouldn't even try.

____

 

[oldgoat]

I have to disagree with the part about trad shooters being better if they had letoff, it's extremely difficult to get good arrow flight and tuning at very low draw weights, but they might be more accurate.

I have to work on my communication skills.


I wish we were all at the same archery club.
I disagree with the part about only having to hold back a reduced let off with the stick bow, at least as far as getting good arrow flight and tuning, more accurate maybe, but getting a good clean release is hard with low poundage bows.

We could find a new trad curious guy, and I could show you.


But that doesn't translate in writing.



If compound guys had to hold 55lbs at full draw, it would all the sudden be a struggle stick.


If trad guys only had to hold 15% of 55lbs they would be floored how good they get.....in short order.


I realize its not practical or maybe affordable to have 25-35-45-and 55lb traditional bows, and matching arrows, but if you start low, it doesn't take long to work your way up to hunting weights once you get the hang of it.

 

[Page Master]

I had really hoped this thread was going to be more of a ''There is no traditional archery, because it by definition is archery.''

Instead we get this semantic and clueless tirade of a subjective opinion. Which to me, screams troll. No pictures, no proof, nothing more than ''I got good easy, so it isn't hard. I don't know what you guys mean.''

Well, you should go challenge Brady Ellison for his spot on the Hoyt lineup, or show some 3D score cards. Recurves, longbows, etc, are some of the hardest pieces of equipment to become truly mastered. Otherwise, everyone would use them.

Have you even mentioned your theoretical set up? Or is this 90% imagination?

 

[briscoetab]

I had really hoped this thread was going to be more of a ''There is no traditional archery, because it by definition is archery.''

Instead we get this semantic and clueless tirade of a subjective opinion. Which to me, screams troll. No pictures, no proof, nothing more than ''I got good easy, so it isn't hard. I don't know what you guys mean.''

Well, you should go challenge Brady Ellison for his spot on the Hoyt lineup, or show some 3D score cards. Recurves, longbows, etc, are some of the hardest pieces of equipment to become truly mastered. Otherwise, everyone would use them.

Have you even mentioned your theoretical set up? Or is this 90% imagination?

Hopefully I’m not being grouped into that category that says “traditional“ archery is easy or any archery period because I’m not saying that with my previous post or this post because I’m completely new and clueless for the most part and have no hunting experience yet with a bow.

The only reason I am even commenting is because the tread started out as a new comer could learn quickly and some commented that it could take some people years to learn how to shoot a trad bows well and almost no one could pick it up in months. I would say I have picked it up in months (4 months now) and would be more than happy to provide video evidence.

I am not saying I could come close to competing with someone who has been shooting for years, I am simply saying I feel like based off of target shooting I could take an elk out to 30- maybe 35 yards ethically. Again that is based off of target shooting, I might completely fall apart if I actually get the opportunity in the field and I might never kill an animal with a recurve, I won’t know till I do it or don’t do it. We will see my attitude about it this year after deer and elk season.

 

[Billy Goat]

Hopefully I’m not being grouped into that category that says “traditional“ archery is easy or any archery period because I’m not saying that with my previous post or this post because I’m completely new and clueless for the most part and have no hunting experience yet with a bow.

The only reason I am even commenting is because the tread started out as a new comer could learn quickly and some commented that it could take some people years to learn how to shoot a trad bows well and almost no one could pick it up in months. I would say I have picked it up in months (4 months now) and would be more than happy to provide video evidence.

I am not saying I could come close to competing with someone who has been shooting for years, I am simply saying I feel like based off of target shooting I could take an elk out to 30- maybe 35 yards ethically. Again that is based off of target shooting, I might completely fall apart if I actually get the opportunity in the field and I might never kill an animal with a recurve, I won’t know till I do it or don’t do it. We will see my attitude about it this year after deer and elk season.

Not to throw fuel on the fire but 4 months is 4x the time span that was initially mentioned. I would believe that with reasonably frequent practice, 4 months could have someone prepared to hunt to limited distances. Hopefully they have practiced a lot on odd angles and awkward situations. I find the recurve/longbow a lot harder to shoot from awkward situations than a compound. Down/up hill especially, easy to drop your arm instead of bending at the hips.

 

[Page Master]

Hopefully I’m not being grouped into that category that says “traditional“ archery is easy or any archery period because I’m not saying that with my previous post or this post because I’m completely new and clueless for the most part and have no hunting experience yet with a bow.

The only reason I am even commenting is because the tread started out as a new comer could learn quickly and some commented that it could take some people years to learn how to shoot a trad bows well and almost no one could pick it up in months. I would say I have picked it up in months (4 months now) and would be more than happy to provide video evidence.

I am not saying I could come close to competing with someone who has been shooting for years, I am simply saying I feel like based off of target shooting I could take an elk out to 30- maybe 35 yards ethically. Again that is based off of target shooting, I might completely fall apart if I actually get the opportunity in the field and I might never kill an animal with a recurve, I won’t know till I do it or don’t do it. We will see my attitude about it this year after deer and elk season.

4 months of solid practice can have you ready to kill out to even 20 yards fairly confidently. Especially with the amount of knowledge available for free online. That is significantly different than what is being mentioned.

 

[Beendare]

Wheres William?

Cmon buddy...its all good...just a discussion, we realize you are just firing us up.........do you realize your fallacy though?

_______

 

[North Idaho Stickbow]

 

[SecretSpot]

This is a continuation of a couple threads over the year. So's we don't hijack other conversations.

A colorful debate about the difference, or lack there of between so called traditional archery, and modern mechanical archery.


Take two beginners of equal hand eye coordination. Strengths, Fire in the belly, Etc etc


Give one a recurve
Give the other a compound


Outfit them both with same doodads releases sights etc. Or lack there of.


Make their holding weight at full draw the same.


Good, or bad their learning curves will match.





I disagree with the struggle stick trad requires years of practice mantra. Its repeated over, and over, and over.



My definition of maximum effective range, is however close you need to be to keep 5 out of 5 arrows on a paper plate in realistic hunting weather.



Apples, to apples there's no practical difference.




So, its just Archery. If your having trouble with recurves, and longbows, get a 25lb bow, with matching arrows, and see how fast you get good.

Whats your experience

 

[briscoetab]

Not to throw fuel on the fire but 4 months is 4x the time span that was initially mentioned. I would believe that with reasonably frequent practice, 4 months could have someone prepared to hunt to limited distances. Hopefully they have practiced a lot on odd angles and awkward situations. I find the recurve/longbow a lot harder to shoot from awkward situations than a compound. Down/up hill especially, easy to drop your arm instead of bending at the hips.

I have taken someone never shooting a compound before and had them hitting 4-5" groups at 20 yards in an hour or two.

Now if you want to make a compound a traditional bow and remove the release aid, remove the sights, then yes I would agree that the learning curve is similar. However generally when referencing a trad bow you are talking barebow, never when someone is talking about a compound would I think they are referring to barebow unless they reference that.

True stick shooters take years to hone their craft. Most still have an effective range of 1/2-1/3 the distance of a compound shooter.

I think it would take someone of extraordinary natural ability to get good out to 30 yards in a matter of months. For the average person, it is far easier to get proficient with a compound than any kind of traditional gear. If it were otherwise, I don't know why anyone would buy a compound. I know I bought one for that very reason many years ago - and went back to trad gear because of the added challenge. Now I will admit, my natural abilities are limited . . .

I guess I was referring to these post and not the OP. I think we all get the point of this thread, so I will bow out now because I have no more to add that is constructive.

 

[smoke]

Briscoetab, I hope that you were not offended by my post - certainly not what was intended. My intended point was simply to offer my view that, in my experience, very few people can pick up trad shooting very easily. please accept my apology if I came across as rude.

 

[William Sublette]

Wheres William?

Cmon buddy...its all good...just a discussion, we realize you are just firing us up.........do you realize your fallacy though?

_______

I gave up.



No fallacy.



Recurves came with sights, before compounds were a thing.











I'm pretty sure I could have a beginner hunting ready, and ethical to 25 yds in a month with " traditional " gear.

 

[Kindo]

I have to disagree with the part about trad shooters being better if they had letoff, it's extremely difficult to get good arrow flight and tuning at very low draw weights, but they might be more accurate.

This right here. I was recently testing out a variety of longbows to dabble in and I was able to test a model where they had a 41 pound bow and a 62 pound bow but nothing in my 52-55 sweet spot. I could shoot the 41 pound bow well but it did magnify my form flaws. I then went to the 62 and while I could shoot it just as accurate, the arrows were absolute darts as the bow wanted to yank the string out of my fingers instead of letting me bugger up the release like the 41 pounder allowed.

 

[briscoetab]

Briscoetab, I hope that you were not offended by my post - certainly not what was intended. My intended point was simply to offer my view that, in my experience, very few people can pick up trad shooting very easily. please accept my apology if I came across as rude.

No you didn’t offend me at all, didn’t mean to sound offended either if that I was how I came across. I was just offering my view since I am new to the trad world, the bow world period. I was enjoying the thread and was saying I was bowing out of it because anything else I had to offer would be repeat and rambling, which I had probably already done enough of that. Thanks for you view and opinion.

 

[Beendare]

Its all good William.

Its pretty obvious you are new to the sport, had decent success target shooting at very close range in your little world.

Take your recurve on a few hunts
.........attend a few Trad Tourneys

.........and something tells me you will be a little bit more humble.

A stick bow does that to you over time.

_____