The What's & Why's on Citric Acid

[Slim Jim]

Jim I have been wanting to volunteer for the pack out as well but I'm not sure on what my work schedule is going to be in September.

Lets make sure we all have each others phone numbers. If I can come me and hard stalk can carpool.

I'll pm you my # bro. Andrew (hardstalk) already has mine

 

[Daniel_M]

Just wrapping up a kick ass 4 day weekend of fishing with my bride and awesome friends.

I'll add more info, links, methods and things I do a little later.

Meat care doesn't have to stress you out, "if" you're prepared with the right tools and information and are able to be a little crafty on the hunt.

 

[Sunspot]

Gives me an excuse to get out there and scout anyway! "Babe I gotta go! Hes out there with a bull stuck in a canyon!!"

I sure wish I knew you in 2011! One of the best spots I found is 4 miles in and gnarly. I bypassed it early knowing I couldn't get the meat out fast enough.

 

[sk1]

here is a question about citric acid application, as depending on my location i may be using it this year

i will be deboning my elk, do you need to let it form a crust before putting it in the game bags? i would think this would be very hard to do once the meat is off the bone, or do i just spray the meat and toss it in the game bag and rotate it as necessary?

 

[Daniel_M]

I don't de-bone, specifically due to the thick, dense nature of a mature bull moose. We're talkin a 150#^ rear quarter. When you debone, you multiply the surface area drastically. Obviously skinning, de-boning and bagging meat will hinder the ability for meat to dry.

Again, if I see flies I will spray, bag and if the temps are good, I'll pull the bags back at camp before bed and let the meat swing.

Have to consider all the factors...
Temps
Wind
Bugs
Time of season...early late?
How many days left do I have in the field.


It's a give and take type of deal, I evaluate the variables first.

 

[sk1]

i guess if i spray and bag right away, i guess im wondering am i doing more harm than good putting it in the bag still wet with the citric acid? it may never have the chance to fully dry off between being put in the bag, rotated, resprayed if necessary, and then packing out. or with the deboning scenerio if it's better just to quick get it in my tag bags to keep flies off and start packing it out asap rather than mess with the citric acid.

i am almost wondering if for my situation it may be better to use game bags and while getting ready to pack out maybe use a contractor bag and submerge the meat to help cooling until i can make the pack out....

 

[Hunt'nFish]

How is cirtic acid any differant than using plain ol' apple cider vinegar?
Family's been using that forever, 5 generations anyway... probably more I'm sure.
Hunt'nFish

 

[rodney482]

Can you mix ACV up on site ??

How is cirtic acid any differant than using plain ol' apple cider vinegar?
Family's been using that forever, 5 generations anyway... probably more I'm sure.
Hunt'nFish

 

[bobhunts]

I bought the kit from Caribou gear and I will try and find some more citric acid in the powder form so I have more for my moose hunt. I looked on-line but before I pull the trigger I will look at local retailers first. No shipping! Bob.

 

[todd kelly]

I bought the kit from Caribou gear and I will try and find some more citric acid in the powder form so I have more for my moose hunt. I looked on-line but before I pull the trigger I will look at local retailers first. No shipping! Bob.

Health food stores is the place to look.

 

[Hunt'nFish]

Because you mix ACV up on site ??

Got it... I keep forgeting ....back pack...no mules.

 

[Daniel_M]

For me, the process on Citric Acid with game preservation has been measured and published in a marketed product.

Measurements are documented, goals for "X" pH level are published.

It's readily available at many stores locally.

Using the Indian Valley or Caribou gear kits, you'll achieve a mix of about 2.3 pH. Meat in its natural form is 7 pH. So you'll drop down to about 5 pH.

2-4 is optimal.

Also keep in mind these levels are based on a quick, clean kill. Poor shots and running game will drop in blood sugar causing a lactic acid response in the meat and muscle tissue.

 

[Mattphillips18]

I read, once upon a time, in an old field & stream about curing your game bags before the hunt with citric acid. Thoughts on that idea?

 

[Hunt'nFish]

Good info. To be continued?

Yeah Dan missed a little on the end.
Here's a link to Larry's full Citric Acid explanation: Why Use Citric Acid on Game Meat

For a Citric Acid source I found that Ball Canning offers it for use in canning tomato's.
A 7.5oz bottle was $5 at Ace Hardware, as well as Walmart and many other places that sell canning supplies.
Some experimentation w/ ph strips should yield the correct ratio of powder to water to achieve a 3ph.
Hunt'nFish

 

[bizyrok]

Thanks for the Ball canning idea. Fleet Farm should have it with all their canning stuff.

 

[Hunt'nFish]

I settled on 2Tbs Ball Citric Acid powder to 1L water.
Hunt'nFish

 

[Larry Bartlett]

yeah, 1-oz to 1 qt will work...filtered or non-filtered is also fine, but the cleaner the better IMO.

Glad you guys found this research of mine. Good stuff.

larry

 

[bizyrok]

Picked up some Ball Citric Acid at Walmart today. $2.97

 

[airlocksniffer]

Would ascorbic acid do the same thing? I have a bottle from the health food store I've used to add to my brewing water and could same myself a trip to that hell called Wal-Mart.

 

[Chem-E]

I used Citric acid this year on my elk. Im not impressed and I will not use it again.
In my experience it did very little to keep the flies and wasps away. They would leave when I first sprayed, but would return in a few minutes.
The citric acid damaged the meat. I believe this happened because I was increasing concentrations in response to the flies not being detered. This is the same mechanism that is used to prepare ceviche, where the citric acid in limes is used to cook meat.
I increased concentrations with each application until I was using a fully saturated solution of citric acid. Still, the flies and wasps swarmed and landed.

It took me 5 days to get my meat out. Temps were getting down to about 42 F at night. The meat was hanging on a shady north slope for 1.5 days while I ferried it down to a river, from the kill site at 11,500' to the stream at 10,200'. At the stream I submerged the meat in trash bags in the creek during the day and hung it out at night. The stream was the single most important factor.

Most of the research found in literature regarding citric acid use for fresh meat preservation is performed in an tightly controlled environment. Wild game meat care in the backcountry is far from controlled and as a result of my experience this season, I personally find it futile to try and take this approach. I feel the time would be better used transporting the meat to a consistently cold environment, such as a stream, lake, or cooler full of ice.

I certainly appreciate the fact that using citric acid spray can't hurt the process and that everything should be done to prevent spoilage and contamination.
But there is apathy in thinking that the use of citric acid, or any other organic acid, will be some sort of game changer. Getting the meat cooled down and maintaining cool temps is by far the most important task at hand once an animal is down. There are many ways to accomplish this in the mountains and using a chemical agent is, in my opinion, not a substitute.

For those that have had success with this application, more power to you. But I did not find success and I will not waste my time with it in the future.